[UKF] [churchill crocodile]

#1
1 year ago
omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

the Churchill crocodile is a heavy flamer tank for the cost of 640MP and 230F and 20Pop cap and unlocked at 13CP.

the main problem with the Churchill crocodile is its health it got 1080HP while normal churchill got 320 more HP which its a great amount and its about a normal Churchill can take up 2 more shots than a Churchill crocodile.

Churchill crocodile takes up 20 popcap for just a extra flamer, 20 pop cap is way too much 18POP or 19POP would be better.

churchill crocodile comes late in the game , way to late at 13CPs and a very high price of 230 F for just a extra flamethrower and fewer health and abilites, it misses grenades, and smoke , only got a normal smoke shell which isn't quite effective as its turret is slow also.

ideas to fix:

  • increase HP up to 1400HP (same as normal Churchill) take away it smoke shell,give it a smoke canister like valentine or smoke like Churchill.
  • increase HP up to 1400 (give it both WP and normal Smoke (WP at vet 1)
  • increase HP up to 1400 (give it auto grenades at lvl 2 same as Pershing as its a assault tank)
«1

Comments

  • #2
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Noooooooooooooooooooooo
  • #3
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    You say "just a flamethrower" as if this thing doesn't melt nazis like the ark of the covenant.

    What if instead we didn't buff units that are fine?
  • #4
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    > @Lazarus said:
    > You say "just a flamethrower" as if this thing doesn't melt nazis like the ark of the covenant.

    LOVE the reference.

    And yes let's not just buff an already good unit without any real trade-off nerfs.
  • #5
    1 year ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    just a health increase would be good , its worse than KV8 now

  • #6
    1 year ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531
    edited April 2019

    @Lazarus said:
    You say "just a flamethrower" as if this thing doesn't melt nazis like the ark of the covenant.

    What if instead we didn't buff units that are fine?

    its not fine , no falling back smoke cover, less health than normal churchill i would always use KV8 now than churchill crocodile.

    and even if it melts, it also gets melted by PG spam, raketenwerfer 2-3

    i always used the churchill crocodile when you was able to use more than 1 bulletin , i did use 3 bulletins of increased speed and use emergency war speed to run away it was faster than a panther but good old days

  • #7
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    If PGs and Raketenwerfers are whats killing your crocodile I don't know what to tell you.

    It's fine. It doesn't need smoke. It's extremely durable for something with such high anti-infantry DPS.
  • #8
    1 year ago

    I don't get how anyone can manage to lose anything heavier than a medium tank to a Raketenwerfer. The T-34 and Sherman will literally ruin it by themselves.

  • #9
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    > @omar_emp said:
    > @Lazarus said:
    > You say "just a flamethrower" as if this thing doesn't melt nazis like the ark of the covenant.
    >
    > What if instead we didn't buff units that are fine?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > its not fine , no falling back smoke cover, less health than normal churchill i would always use KV8 now than churchill crocodile.
    >
    > and even if it melts, it also gets melted by PG spam, raketenwerfer 2-3
    >
    > i always used the churchill crocodile when you was able to use more than 1 bulletin , i did use 3 bulletins of increased speed and use emergency war speed to run away it was faster than a panther but good old days

    Its a KV8 that has more health and a full power main gun... It's less mobile sure, but it's a better tank outside that.
  • #10
    1 year ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    @SimpleSimon said:
    I don't get how anyone can manage to lose anything heavier than a medium tank to a Raketenwerfer. The T-34 and Sherman will literally ruin it by themselves.

    not to a spam , lot of players especially in ranked games tend to use them and make excellent attacks with the assault camouflage it have

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    > @omar_emp said:
    > @Lazarus said:
    > You say "just a flamethrower" as if this thing doesn't melt nazis like the ark of the covenant.
    >
    > What if instead we didn't buff units that are fine?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > its not fine , no falling back smoke cover, less health than normal churchill i would always use KV8 now than churchill crocodile.
    >
    > and even if it melts, it also gets melted by PG spam, raketenwerfer 2-3
    >
    > i always used the churchill crocodile when you was able to use more than 1 bulletin , i did use 3 bulletins of increased speed and use emergency war speed to run away it was faster than a panther but good old days

    Its a KV8 that has more health and a full power main gun... It's less mobile sure, but it's a better tank outside that.

    well i just noticed it has 120 more HP than KV8, what a problem for crocodile is its main facing flamer thats one hard thing espically while getting flanked by raketens or multiple squad attacks,lately i never use the churchill crocodile a 230F is too much , and not worth it and isnt 20pop cap also isnt worth it , and as you stated its very slow,once it reach level 2 its becomes much faster, but it usually dont survive on me while normal churchill in last 3 games , one of the games i got 51 kills with a churchill including Panther, while using piats,churchill and AEC, you can easily use it without getting worried about it not going to make it in the fallback.

    @Lazarus said:
    If PGs and Raketenwerfers are whats killing your crocodile I don't know what to tell you.

    It's fine. It doesn't need smoke. It's extremely durable for something with such high anti-infantry DPS.

    they can easily damage it very well and when PG spam attack a churchill usually spread it out in 2-3 groups or attacking sides , in which the churchill flamer is fixed on front so only 1 squad getting to be hit by the flame, and as the churchill main gun not that accurate you wont be worried about your flanking infantry , while normal churchill got MGs on the flank which will damage the flanking infantry and makes the PG easier to be killed by supported infantry.

    i also my self tend to use 2PGs and 2-3 grenadiers to kill churchill PGs damage it well greandiers spam PZFST., and while engine damaged on churchill crocdile it wont go anyway and a 640MP 230F gone. and also with it long time you wont need to worry about the new one

  • #11
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    > @omar_emp said:
    > they can easily damage it very well and when PG spam attack a churchill usually spread it out in 2-3 groups or attacking sides , in which the churchill flamer is fixed on front so only 1 squad getting to be hit by the flame,

    If you let your croc get surrounded, you did something wrong. Don't send it forward into a place you don't have vision, because that's the only way AT infantry can magically surround you
  • #12
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876
    • 2 Panthers have a hard time to kill a Churchill because of ATguns support behind
    • Churchill croc have a hard time to fight because of 2Pzgren & 3Gren, raketens...

    I find a similar in these lines, your attack is lack of combined arm & support. Where are your order units when they have 5-6 units attack on your Churchill croc?

  • #13
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @omar_emp said:

    @Lazarus said:
    If PGs and Raketenwerfers are whats killing your crocodile I don't know what to tell you.

    It's fine. It doesn't need smoke. It's extremely durable for something with such high anti-infantry DPS.

    they can easily damage it very well and when PG spam attack a churchill usually spread it out in 2-3 groups or attacking sides , in which the churchill flamer is fixed on front so only 1 squad getting to be hit by the flame, and as the churchill main gun not that accurate you wont be worried about your flanking infantry , while normal churchill got MGs on the flank which will damage the flanking infantry and makes the PG easier to be killed by supported infantry.

    Yeah - that's not a balance issue. The Crocodile isn't meant to heave 360 degrees of protection. Stop comparing it to a normal Churchill. Yes, it doesn't have MGs in the side. You know what it does have? An extremely powerful flamethrower in the front.

    If you want to shorten that flamethrowers range and reduce its damage to the point where it is equal to the hull MG on regular Churchills, then you can talk about buffing it to regular Churchill levels.

  • #14
    1 year ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    @Lazarus said:

    @omar_emp said:

    @Lazarus said:
    If PGs and Raketenwerfers are whats killing your crocodile I don't know what to tell you.

    It's fine. It doesn't need smoke. It's extremely durable for something with such high anti-infantry DPS.

    they can easily damage it very well and when PG spam attack a churchill usually spread it out in 2-3 groups or attacking sides , in which the churchill flamer is fixed on front so only 1 squad getting to be hit by the flame, and as the churchill main gun not that accurate you wont be worried about your flanking infantry , while normal churchill got MGs on the flank which will damage the flanking infantry and makes the PG easier to be killed by supported infantry.

    Yeah - that's not a balance issue. The Crocodile isn't meant to heave 360 degrees of protection. Stop comparing it to a normal Churchill. Yes, it doesn't have MGs in the side. You know what it does have? An extremely powerful flamethrower in the front.

    If you want to shorten that flamethrowers range and reduce its damage to the point where it is equal to the hull MG on regular Churchills, then you can talk about buffing it to regular Churchill levels.

    so i pay more for tank for less health? and a flamethrower so i am exchanging health for flamethrower so i shouldnt pay 70F more for a exchange, and shouldnt wait 13CP for this exchange , it should cost same as normal churchlll or 180F.

    @C3Tooth said:

    • 2 Panthers have a hard time to kill a Churchill because of ATguns support behind
    • Churchill croc have a hard time to fight because of 2Pzgren & 3Gren, raketens...

    I find a similar in these lines, your attack is lack of combined arm & support. Where are your order units when they have 5-6 units attack on your Churchill croc?

    normal churchill is hard to kill i agree , but churchill croc nah not hard, i always found it silly to kill , and i use combined arms , i didnt say i didnt use , i get 3-4infantry sections and 2-3heavy engineers with piats while at attacking to cover churchill from flanking tanks and damage engine which gives the firefly enough time to destroy a flanking tank.

  • #15
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @omar_emp said:

    so i pay more for tank for less health? and a flamethrower

    Yes. If you don't like the deal, don't buy it.

  • #16
    1 year ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 297

    so i pay more for tank for less health? and a flamethrower

    No, more fuel for a standard churchill + flamethrower, with that combo it been proven before to be too strong with so much health.

    Before it had 1600 health and rosted everything that was at sight on the screen, lol

    All tought i would like to see it at 210 fuel.

  • #17
    1 year ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    @mrdjjag81 said:

    so i pay more for tank for less health? and a flamethrower

    No, more fuel for a standard churchill + flamethrower, with that combo it been proven before to be too strong with so much health.

    Before it had 1600 health and rosted everything that was at sight on the screen, lol

    All tought i would like to see it at 210 fuel.

    it had a bug that it was shooting 2 flamers at the same time, yes it was OP at its time.
    with its current stats it should be 200F 16POP

  • #18
    1 year ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531
    edited April 2019

    @Lazarus said:

    @omar_emp said:

    so i pay more for tank for less health? and a flamethrower

    Yes. If you don't like the deal, don't buy it.

    lets make a comparison between them and see how not cost efficient , and then just say to people dont like it dont buy it.you also remind me of a game developer that said the same.

    Churchill Mk. VII Infantry Tank
    +lower price (490MP,160F)
    +lower POP (18P,24-MP/MIN)
    +has 320 more HP
    +comes earlier
    +has more abilities (instant smoke,grenade)
    -requires tech up (but still cost less than churchill crocodile)
    -no front flamer

    Churchill Crocodile
    +has flamer in front

    +has smoke shell (needs to rotate its cannon and makes the cannon useless until it shots its round as churchill turret is slow, all tanks with smoke round if given the order to fire smoke moves their cannons faster than normal turret rotation speed except churchill crocodile)

    -higher cost (640MP,230F)
    -higher POP (20,30-MP/MIN)
    -low amount of abilities
    -comes late as it requires 13CPs

  • #19
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @omar_emp said:

    @Lazarus said:

    @omar_emp said:

    so i pay more for tank for less health? and a flamethrower

    Yes. If you don't like the deal, don't buy it.

    lets make a comparison between them and see how not cost efficient , and then just say to people dont like it dont buy it.you also remind me of a game developer that said the same.

    Churchill Mk. VII Infantry Tank
    +lower price (490MP,160F)
    +lower POP (18P,24-MP/MIN)
    +has 320 more HP
    +comes earlier
    +has more abilities (instant smoke,grenade)
    -requires tech up (but still cost less than churchill crocodile)
    -no front flamer

    Churchill Crocodile
    +has flamer in front

    +has smoke shell (needs to rotate its cannon and makes the cannon useless until it shots its round as churchill turret is slow, all tanks with smoke round if given the order to fire smoke moves their cannons faster than normal turret rotation speed except churchill crocodile)

    -higher cost (640MP,230F)
    -higher POP (20,30-MP/MIN)
    -low amount of abilities
    -comes late as it requires 13CPs

    It's more like

    Crocodile
    +++++++++ has a flamer

    That's not a small bonus. It's massively destructive and it's unparalleled anti-infantry DPS on heavy tanks. I already told you to stop comparing it to a regular Churchill so I don't know why you then went on to do exactly that.

  • #20
    1 year ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    @Lazarus said:

    @omar_emp said:

    @Lazarus said:

    @omar_emp said:

    so i pay more for tank for less health? and a flamethrower

    Yes. If you don't like the deal, don't buy it.

    lets make a comparison between them and see how not cost efficient , and then just say to people dont like it dont buy it.you also remind me of a game developer that said the same.

    Churchill Mk. VII Infantry Tank
    +lower price (490MP,160F)
    +lower POP (18P,24-MP/MIN)
    +has 320 more HP
    +comes earlier
    +has more abilities (instant smoke,grenade)
    -requires tech up (but still cost less than churchill crocodile)
    -no front flamer

    Churchill Crocodile
    +has flamer in front

    +has smoke shell (needs to rotate its cannon and makes the cannon useless until it shots its round as churchill turret is slow, all tanks with smoke round if given the order to fire smoke moves their cannons faster than normal turret rotation speed except churchill crocodile)

    -higher cost (640MP,230F)
    -higher POP (20,30-MP/MIN)
    -low amount of abilities
    -comes late as it requires 13CPs

    It's more like

    Crocodile
    +++++++++ has a flamer

    That's not a small bonus. It's massively destructive and it's unparalleled anti-infantry DPS on heavy tanks. I already told you to stop comparing it to a regular Churchill so I don't know why you then went on to do exactly that.

    so all this disadvantages for a flamer? OK

  • #21
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @omar_emp said:

    @Lazarus said:

    @omar_emp said:

    @Lazarus said:

    @omar_emp said:

    so i pay more for tank for less health? and a flamethrower

    Yes. If you don't like the deal, don't buy it.

    lets make a comparison between them and see how not cost efficient , and then just say to people dont like it dont buy it.you also remind me of a game developer that said the same.

    Churchill Mk. VII Infantry Tank
    +lower price (490MP,160F)
    +lower POP (18P,24-MP/MIN)
    +has 320 more HP
    +comes earlier
    +has more abilities (instant smoke,grenade)
    -requires tech up (but still cost less than churchill crocodile)
    -no front flamer

    Churchill Crocodile
    +has flamer in front

    +has smoke shell (needs to rotate its cannon and makes the cannon useless until it shots its round as churchill turret is slow, all tanks with smoke round if given the order to fire smoke moves their cannons faster than normal turret rotation speed except churchill crocodile)

    -higher cost (640MP,230F)
    -higher POP (20,30-MP/MIN)
    -low amount of abilities
    -comes late as it requires 13CPs

    It's more like

    Crocodile
    +++++++++ has a flamer

    That's not a small bonus. It's massively destructive and it's unparalleled anti-infantry DPS on heavy tanks. I already told you to stop comparing it to a regular Churchill so I don't know why you then went on to do exactly that.

    so all this disadvantages for a flamer? OK

    Yes. Only these few disadvantages for a massively destructive excellent flamethrower.

  • #22
    1 year ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited April 2019
    > @omar_emp said:
    > so all this disadvantages for a flamer? OK

    You left out that the Croc has +50 armor. 290 vs 240 for regular Churchill
  • #23
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Also the croc can have emergency war speed can it not?
  • #24
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876

    Also the croc can have emergency war speed can it not?
    No way I never thought of this.

  • #25
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Also the croc can have emergency war speed can it not?

    Probably no one sane will get any churchill without heavy sapper upgrade to keep them in fight, but yes, with hammer it should.

  • #26
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    > @Katitof said:
    > @thedarkarmadillo said:
    > Also the croc can have emergency war speed can it not?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Probably no one sane will get any churchill without heavy sapper upgrade to keep them in fight, but yes, with hammer it should.

    To be fair though, 290 armour is alot for anything shy of a panther and with sappers being so cheap and now with a snare you can have 10 men fixing er up pretty well.
  • #27
    1 year ago
    ckwxckwx Posts: 7

    I hope Churchill crocodile have a similar stat with KV8, such as timing, resource, etc. Currently Churchill crocodile timing is too late.

  • #28
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    Crocodile is a very strong tank.
    If you don't see that, you might need to adjust your play and BO.

  • #29
    1 year ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 297

    Maybe not any top players but shows how deadly the crooc can be

  • #30
    1 year ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    @mrdjjag81 said:
    Maybe not any top players but shows how deadly the crooc can be

    yeah 2 players every time covering the retreat of crocodile, wher player dont have good AT, they are just pushing the crocodile more than 3 times with infantry,OKW player act to slow to his burning troops,OKW didnt do the typical rktnwrfr spam or atleast a jagdpanzer

    he once risked losing a firefly to just save crocodile from pziv but his friend helped him, while they were in 1v1 against the OKW.

    and the OKW player doesnt do combined tactics, he attacks with infantry then attacks with tanks, he should attack with both as he can PZFST spam with 3 volks.

    its more mistakes from the axis players than crocodile is doing its work.

  • #31
    1 year ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    Question since I have not used the crocodile, "not experienced Brits player" do the flames continue to burn after initial burst? Example axis flame half track can scoot in fire and back off and units if not moved will continue to burn. But any hand held flamethrower just does an aoe damage or bonus to garrisons as normal without the continual burn.
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