British and usf artillery

#1
6 months ago
Will the British or usf ever get stock artillery barrage options?
I know they both have call in arty for munitions but it just is not the same and you cant counter barrage when you choose a commander other than an arty commander makeing it hard to choose the commanders you would rather be playing as it leaves a wide whole in tactics without Russia katushas.
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Comments

  • #2
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    They both have mobile howitzers doctrinal if you so desire them. If not making use of the fantastic tools in their core army as an alternative is your best bet.
  • #3
    6 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    I did mention commander arty. Idk what these fantastic tools are. Nothing has that burst damage. I usually winde up recrewing and bleeding manpower In the long run.
  • #4
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    Sherman HE, Scott, major arty, powerful infantry, pak howi. Various doctrinal units
    Centaur, mortar pit, bofors, comet WP, base howis. Various other commander options.
  • #5
    6 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    edited April 16
    these units are somehow special?
    Sherman's get negated by shreck unlike brumbar vs bazooka or similar ai tanks like flack.
    Centaur sits in a good spot tanky and also has aa capability.

    Scott not going to stop a blob like rocket trucks etcetra or hit a tightly grouped defensive line killing off multiple support units.

    Scott still serves a purpose In my opinion of only being a survivable 75mm pack howitzer as it can withstand a stuka barrage and offer smoke at the expense of decreased range and increased cost/ maneuvering hense just a more survivable howitzer.

    Mortar pit is stationary and so is an easy target also not the best option against mobile mg units across the map.

    Bofor is just a cheaper okw hq with less penatration less hp less range ide rather get the car which has better resource preservation and just use mg crews.

    Powerful infantry is just how you use them currently as all factions have their preferred way of utilizing them in an optimal fashion and overall the Inf game is very solid across the board.

    Comet I will give you that is a solid unit.

    Major and base arty suffer the same red flare problem as units can just run unlike rocket arty, have to be within visual range and really not that great vs structures either.

    Brits and usf just need atleast to have that stock unit barrage spot filled In without the need for a commander although I dont minde a more powerful unit as what a commander should be used for. Not just to fill a hole in the faction. As everything currently feels.
  • #6
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    If they get stock arty, which they won't, because they don't need it, they will need to lose other things. You can't have it all.
  • #7
    6 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    In that case I would be more then happy to lose major and base arty as it just makes other abilities redundant.
  • #8
    6 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 587

    If they get stock arty, which they won't, because they don't need it, they will need to lose other things. You can't have it all.

    Im not trying to bias Allies but

    Power full starting unit Sturm: check
    Volk can do everything without sidetech: check
    Elite infantry Obersodaten: check
    Map hack InfraredHT: check
    6 heavy rocket at 7mins Stuka: check
    Various Light Puma & Luch: check
    ATgun in tier0: check
    Medium Pz4: check
    Premium medium Panther: check
    Super heavy King tiger: check

    It doesnt mean I ask USF & Brit to have non-doc arty, just asking what is the option that Okw doesnt have?

  • #9
    6 months ago
    BloodygoodBloodygood Posts: 74

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Sherman HE, Scott, major arty, powerful infantry, pak howi. Various doctrinal units
    Centaur, mortar pit, bofors, comet WP, base howis. Various other commander options.

    Axis heat Shells, Puma, mortar officer, powerful infantry, le1g, various doctrinal units
    Ostwind, grw, flack halftrack, pintle-mounted tank mgs, lefh. Various other commander options.

    What you meant to say is "you can't have it all, only axis can."

  • #10
    6 months ago
    robocskarobocska Posts: 21

    So
    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Sherman HE, Scott, major arty, powerful infantry, pak howi. Various doctrinal units
    Centaur, mortar pit, bofors, comet WP, base howis. Various other commander options.

    Axis heat Shells, Puma, mortar officer, powerful infantry, le1g, various doctrinal units
    Ostwind, grw, flack halftrack, pintle-mounted tank mgs, lefh. Various other commander options.

    What you meant to say is "you can't have it all, only axis can."

    half of the unit/ability is doctrinal
    Okw don't have ostwind can't call mortar offficer
    Wehr don't have heat le1g the USF field howitzer and Mortal enplacment easly counter the Grw

    btw alieas have more option for arty

    Soviets bacis mortar ,120 mm mortal katyusa, b4 , bacis howitzer
    USF 81mm, field howitzer .Priest ,Caliope
    Brits Mortal enplacment,Land matress.Saxton

    Axis
    Ost Basic mortal ,leif, panzerwerfer
    Okw Leig stuka leif

    And you guys want more for alies becuse "only axis can."

  • #11
    6 months ago
    robocskarobocska Posts: 21

    Oh i forgot the USF scott my bad

  • #12
    6 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    Im Talking about having acess to non doctrinal rocket artillery.

    Not adding more unit types that serve the same basic functions unique to each faction.
  • #13
    6 months ago
    BloodygoodBloodygood Posts: 74

    @robocska said:
    So
    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Sherman HE, Scott, major arty, powerful infantry, pak howi. Various doctrinal units
    Centaur, mortar pit, bofors, comet WP, base howis. Various other commander options.

    Axis heat Shells, Puma, mortar officer, powerful infantry, le1g, various doctrinal units
    Ostwind, grw, flack halftrack, pintle-mounted tank mgs, lefh. Various other commander options.

    What you meant to say is "you can't have it all, only axis can."

    half of the unit/ability is doctrinal
    Okw don't have ostwind can't call mortar offficer
    Wehr don't have heat le1g the USF field howitzer and Mortal enplacment easly counter the Grw

    btw alieas have more option for arty

    Soviets bacis mortar ,120 mm mortal katyusa, b4 , bacis howitzer
    USF 81mm, field howitzer .Priest ,Caliope
    Brits Mortal enplacment,Land matress.Saxton

    Axis
    Ost Basic mortal ,leif, panzerwerfer
    Okw Leig stuka leif

    And you guys want more for alies becuse "only axis can."

    You can divide the categories into their appropriate wehr/okw splits yourself, but ultimately you are simply moving the goalposts from the fact that compared with the axis powers, brits and usf are at the unique disadvantage of their artillery costing munitions to actually fire, not discounting their doctrinal mobile arty, which the axis have available non-doctrinally in the form of rocket trucks. Any way you slice it, this means less firepower options, especially considering that when usf brits pay munitions to barrage, they are limited to doing so on map visibility, whereas axis can fire into the fog of war on a non-doctrinal basis.

  • #14
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    edited April 20
    Happen to notice that both the factions without non doc rockets are also the only 2 factions with weapon racks and non doc off map arty? If you want a faction with non doc arty you are in luck, there are 3 of them. No faction has everything. Quit your bitching and use the strengths you DO have or bite the bullet and pick a commander with the tools you so appearently need like all the other factions do.
  • #15
    6 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    Ok so you pick arty commander and lack advanced mediums and vise versa also
    possibly losing out on higher powered infantry. A bit of a lose lose situation.

    Weapon racks? You mean I have to spend ammo to take on non doctrine un upgrade
    uber infantry? And double up to take on the upgraded ones wow who would have thought. Then spend ammo on All my artillery strikes while I'm at it.
  • #16
    6 months ago
    Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
    edited April 20
    I probably understand the problem. He hopes that if the whole team is usf or ukf, it will not limit the commander's choice, but if you do this, you must first nerf pastors and priests and Calliope the next step is to discuss how to counter the shelling.
  • #17
    6 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    edited April 20
    Idk why you would nerf allied arty further? They already received nerfs over the years specifically the calliope. Tankier then Most ya but slow as balls expensive slow fireing and slightly longer to vet.

    Land matress I have not played with so I can not speak on behalf of that unit.

    Sexton and priest are fine as they are as they are fairly mobile for an increase in cost per unit and less range in comparison to a stationary howitzer although I dont know anyone who uses creeping barrage unless I'm missing something meh but anyway these two units stay as doctrinal units.

    Then if you wanted you could actually have rocket barrage and a doctrinal howitzer albeit not as many do to pop cap but still would have both as an option finally.

    As far as countering the shelling that is curently already done with the use of stationary howitzers with counter barrage active utilizing the superior range these can also be repaired and recrewed as well as have a healing station.

    Also abilities that target vehicles can be used in conjunction with recon which smoke bombs doubles as reconnaissance effectively giveing wehrmacht 10 commanders with recon options then It is just a matter of coordinating with the team.

    Okw I think has 1 recon option flares even if it is a powerful one due to no counter and used anywhere on the map only haveing that one option is why they depend on the ir halftrack and wehrmacht players.

    Okw could use a few more recon options in the commander roster if future commanders are implemented and personally I think all flares should be limited to use on an in game unit with range restrictions or structure even.

    storm troopers with shrecks which would work better if they came with shrecks like partisans in my opinion since veteran squad leaders already beefs up normal infantry and with assault and hold ability it would be a powerful option to hit vehicles behinde enemy lines.

    As far as off map arty it pails in comparison to a rocket barrage on a large cluster of units has range restrictions and cannot fire into fog of war shares cooldown and reduces munitions stores. Where as a true off map arty is used for something like hitting stationary howitzers.

    Now if you wanted to give my base at tier 3 the option to call In A off map strike anywhere on the map with recon and replace my off map abilities due to redundancy issues with a 205mm on map stationary howitzer well I saposed I would just have to live with that :smile:

    So really nothing would change other than haveing an extra option and possibly change up the commanders.
  • #18
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    > @38Lightning said:
    > Ok so you pick arty commander and lack advanced mediums and vise versa also
    > possibly losing out on higher powered infantry. A bit of a lose lose situation.
    >
    > Weapon racks? You mean I have to spend ammo to take on non doctrine un upgrade
    > uber infantry? And double up to take on the upgraded ones wow who would have thought. Then spend ammo on All my artillery strikes while I'm at it.

    Yes. That's the point. You pick advanced mediums that will knock the snot out of the enemy or arty to knock the snot out of the enemy. You want both ONTOPof really powerful and flexible infantry and fantastic TDs
    Doctrines are a choice. They are supposed to be. If you want arty that bad then that's your choice.

    And don't try and shit talk weaponracks. Being able to make literally any squad into an AT squad or massively boost their AI to the point of balance issues is a great boon. This again goes into the CHOICES thing y ou seem to be struggling with. If you want the game handed to you with minimal choices easy AI is a great place to do that. You can even get mods to get your aty and advanced mediums all at the same time! But in live game, there are decisions to be made,strengthen here at the cost of that there, reinforce this, throw a cache there. It's actually a game feature don't you know.
  • #19
    5 months ago
    BloodygoodBloodygood Posts: 74

    Clearly some type of troll bringing up weapon racks as if they are all circumstantially connected to "off-map" artillery. If you're going to compare apples to apples, don't bring up oranges. To this end, news flash-- off map artillery fires a visible flare to alert the enemy and cannot even fire into the fog of war, so don't talk about off-map like it's some great boon compared to lefhs and rocket trucks.

  • #20
    5 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    edited April 22
    If I have to double bar to take on elite Infantry then you know full well I'm lacking munitions for at or off map so if your not getting vehicles well choices I guess in your words.

    as far as the power of at squads nothing beats double shreck squads for 100 munitions that outperforms all others in the same class.

    I dont have elite infantry as a stock unit without a doctrin and axis dont have access to off map from a commander without a doctrine.

    That is a legite topic I understand but if you want to talk about double equipping vs elite infantry options and the power of hand held anti tank options please do that in another thread.

    I feel I explained my opinions fairly well in my last post.
  • #21
    5 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307

    watch me up in the north of the map as I struggle vs 2 opponents. they get the better of me early on and remain outside my base creating a solid defensive. now I know our allied soviet player was not the best but you cant look at that and say I didn't need a solid rocket barrage of my own.

    the two 75mm pack howitzers and the two 105mm Sherman's where just not enough to cut it any way you like to slice it.

  • #22
    5 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 587

    Since Volk just perform better than Luch at AI. The weakness Okw has for now is they usually ignore Light tank play since Luch is not good in team game, Puma will not on the field if there is no Stuart/AEC, FlakHT is not stand a chance against USF AAHT & Bofors, and Stuka is not good in 1v1 2v2.
    Ignore using Light tank means they use only T0 units to fight for a whole game waiting for a Panther or King come out

    Captain tech is harder to play than Lieu (since you only have One mobile MG - AAHT), but one or two ATgun do the protection from Luch/Puma for AAHT better than MGs protect Stuart from infantry. Further more if you lose fuel, ATgun can protect you from their early medium tank, and Cap help you to build a Jackson 50% faster.

  • #23
    5 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    > @Bloodygood said:
    > Clearly some type of troll bringing up weapon racks as if they are all circumstantially connected to "off-map" artillery. If you're going to compare apples to apples, don't bring up oranges. To this end, news flash-- off map artillery fires a visible flare to alert the enemy and cannot even fire into the fog of war, so don't talk about off-map like it's some great boon compared to lefhs and rocket trucks.

    Each faction has things. The factions that have weapon racks lack no doc rocket arty. They are the ONLY factions that lack non-doc rocket arty. Their strength is in boots on the ground offering a withering level of firepower. Both of those factions ALSO have an off map barrage. It's all linked. They call it "faction design" or something like that.

    Balance is a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions. You can't have the ability to outfit your infantry in whatever configuration you please nearing elite specialist levels and also always be able to lead with rockets. It's not feasible on a balance level. How would someone fight that even? Play to the strengths of the faction, if you want different strengths there are a whooping 5 factions to chose from with a blend of various strengths and weaknesses! OR do pick a doctrine with they toys you would like.
  • #24
    5 months ago
    Rommel654Rommel654 Fort Eustis, VAPosts: 932 mod
    edited April 28

    I watched your replay for 10 min.

    You are a brave guy to put your replays out there in this sometimes judgmental environment. Don't take these comments as negative. This is intended as helpful criticism.

    1) You picked the wrong commander for the player you were mainly against. You are on the North of Steppes and you USF Armor Commander vs an OKW Luft Ground Forces Cdr. Perhaps Airborne from your line up would have helped you more.

    2) Your start (first 2 min) did not build up forces but piecemealed into a player who used cover then pushed you off just as your mortar got there, then it gets pushed off.

    3) Then you began to move all 6 units in one mouse click. Some might call that blobbing. You still were somewhat successful in that, but that won't be for long against a good player - and you were against a good player.

    4) You were beat early and hard by superior infantry play, not superior units. He beat you with what should have been your strengths. He beat you with great use of smoke. Americans should own smoke play. USF can smoke so much the team could get lung cancer. Remember when riflemen could smoke with grenades? That ended up OP.

    He beat your 3 squads with one falls squad in completely open ground because he smoked it on landing, counting on you using attack move, which you were. You moved in with a team so tightly packed their heat signature could be seen from the space station, then in the smoke they ate the grenade.

    I stopped watching after 10 minutes because there was not any combination of forces you could have built that would have turned the game at that point.

    I also get frustrated with I play USF because of the lack of reliable arty enablers that other faction have. USF plays differently. They used to play A LOT differently, but updates have moved them more center. It takes a lot of micro to effectively use their enormous kitbag of options. In my opinion they are the most fun to play, but I'm often more effective with other factions because of my playstyle.

    USF generally, like all factions, have capability gaps that you need to compensate for at different stages of the game.

    The player you were against was really good, and a bit lucky. His all star team outmatched your team, which only made things worse for you. He went for the gamble of setting his battle group HQ right outside your wire. You almost got it, but again, his good use of smoke allow him to save it. Had you won that fight it would have been a better game for you, but unfortunately the outcome would likely have not changed. That game was decided long before any mass destruction arty could have helped.

  • #25
    5 months ago
    BloodygoodBloodygood Posts: 74

    @thedarkarmadillo said:

    Each faction has things. The factions that have weapon racks lack no doc rocket arty. They are the ONLY factions that lack non-doc rocket arty. Their strength is in boots on the ground offering a withering level of firepower. Both of those factions ALSO have an off map barrage. It's all linked. They call it "faction design" or something like that.

    Balance is a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions. You can't have the ability to outfit your infantry in whatever configuration you please nearing elite specialist levels and also always be able to lead with rockets. It's not feasible on a balance level. How would someone fight that even? Play to the strengths of the faction, if you want different strengths there are a whooping 5 factions to chose from with a blend of various strengths and weaknesses! OR do pick a doctrine with they toys you would like.

    Again, this would hold water if and only if the axis factions didn't have a plethora of excellent weapon packages to select from. What I am hearing from your reasoning is that the axis should eliminate the MG 42 LMG and GR43 from their arsenal so that they can play with rocket toys

  • #26
    5 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    > @Bloodygood said:
    > @thedarkarmadillo said:
    >
    > Each faction has things. The factions that have weapon racks lack no doc rocket arty. They are the ONLY factions that lack non-doc rocket arty. Their strength is in boots on the ground offering a withering level of firepower. Both of those factions ALSO have an off map barrage. It's all linked. They call it "faction design" or something like that.
    >
    > Balance is a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions. You can't have the ability to outfit your infantry in whatever configuration you please nearing elite specialist levels and also always be able to lead with rockets. It's not feasible on a balance level. How would someone fight that even? Play to the strengths of the faction, if you want different strengths there are a whooping 5 factions to chose from with a blend of various strengths and weaknesses! OR do pick a doctrine with they toys you would like.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Again, this would hold water if and only if the axis factions didn't have a plethora of excellent weapon packages to select from. What I am hearing from your reasoning is that the axis should eliminate the MG 42 LMG and GR43 from their arsenal so that they can play with rocket toys

    Can Ost give pios an mg42?
    What about volks slinging Shreks?
    Its not the weapons themselves, it's the ability to saturate your army with then as you see fit. As usf/ukf you can have an AT squad for about 200mp. Axis need about 300 or more. Isf/ukf can slap 2 high DPS weapon on any squad they want, axis are limited by who can carry what and how many.
  • #27
    5 months ago
    BloodygoodBloodygood Posts: 74

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Can Ost give pios an mg42?
    What about volks slinging Shreks?
    Its not the weapons themselves, it's the ability to saturate your army with then as you see fit. As usf/ukf you can have an AT squad for about 200mp. Axis need about 300 or more. Isf/ukf can slap 2 high DPS weapon on any squad they want, axis are limited by who can carry what and how many.

    Nevertheless, they have weapons available, and they work well. The US and UK don't have rocket artillery. This is why it's apples to oranges, rather than asym balance. You can't have this mythical "saturation" you speak of, and still have enough munitions to call in artillery, which doesn't even work through the fog of war unlike rocket trucks, which you don't have. You don't have them!

  • #28
    5 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    > @Rommel654 said:
    > I watched your replay for 10 min.
    >
    > You are a brave guy to put your replays out there in this sometimes judgmental environment. Don't take these comments as negative. This is intended as helpful criticism.
    >
    > 1) You picked the wrong commander for the player you were mainly against. You are on the North of Steppes and you USF Armor Commander vs an OKW Luft Ground Forces Cdr. Perhaps Airborne from your line up would have helped you more.
    >
    > 2) Your start (first 2 min) did not build up forces but piecemealed into a player who used cover then pushed you off just as your mortar got there, then it gets pushed off.
    >
    > 3) Then you began to move all 6 units in one mouse click. Some might call that blobbing. You still were somewhat successful in that, but that won't be for long against a good player - and you were against a good player.
    >
    > 4) You were beat early and hard by superior infantry play, not superior units. He beat you with what should have been your strengths. He beat you with great use of smoke. Americans should own smoke play. USF can smoke so much the team could get lung cancer. Remember when riflemen could smoke with grenades? That ended up OP.
    >
    > He beat your 3 squads with one falls squad in completely open ground because he smoked it on landing, counting on you using attack move, which you were. You moved in with a team so tightly packed their heat signature could be seen from the space station, then in the smoke they ate the grenade.
    >
    > I stopped watching after 10 minutes because there was not any combination of forces you could have built that would have turned the game at that point.
    >
    > I also get frustrated with I play USF because of the lack of reliable arty enablers that other faction have. USF plays differently. They used to play A LOT differently, but updates have moved them more center. It takes a lot of micro to effectively use their enormous kitbag of options. In my opinion they are the most fun to play, but I'm often more effective with other factions because of my playstyle.
    >
    > USF generally, like all factions, have capability gaps that you need to compensate for at different stages of the game.
    >
    > The player you were against was really good, and a bit lucky. His all star team outmatched your team, which only made things worse for you. He went for the gamble of setting his battle group HQ right outside your wire. You almost got it, but again, his good use of smoke allow him to save it. Had you won that fight it would have been a better game for you, but unfortunately the outcome would likely have not changed. That game was decided long before any mass destruction arty could have helped.

    Idk why critiquing my gameplay has anything to do with the lack of rocket artillery but ok.

    1 minute 30 I had a rifleman behinde heavy cover and a rear echelon capturing munitions with a mortar close behined my rifleman I actually spent all my man power for units at this point as he "piecmealed" Into my heavy cover position not the other way around and his partner came up the side negating my cover.

    Milkymustard bypasses all capture points and heads straight to my solo rear echelon with first sturmpio and Omegon backs him up in center effectively makeing it 3 units vs my 1 rifleman giveing me no choice but to retreat.
    Without any main units to hold the line I am also forces to retreat mortar which had also missed hitting the 1 volks behinde heavy cover.

    Once field presence is secured they cap the points.

    3 minutes 50 milkymustard gets sturmpioneer inside building so I have to back off before I take to much damage as I already started to.

    I attempt to reposition and get heavy cover but i am denied cover with
    (incendiary grenades) from volksgrenadiers reinforcements and lose a couple squads on the retreat.

    which also has lower tech cost and goes directly into upgrading next tier a minimum 40 fuel 300 manpower incendiary plus unlocks weapons.

    Compaired to 50 fuel 350 manpower grenades with officer and no acess to vehicles or weapons rack.
    70 fuel 400 manpower with vehicle acess.
    Minus the 15 starter fuel difference is
    55 fuel 400mp that's a 15 fuel differential overal at this stage that I am now behinde. Then with weapon racks I'm at 85 fuel 550 manpower 30 fuel behinde with essentially a 250mp officer.

    It would look like 45 fuel behinde if I didn't take away the starting differential or realise their was one.

    Considering the okw start with 300mp unit and 350 in reserve
    Compared to 200mp unit and 410 in reserve.
    That's a 40 mp difference then get first mainline inf volk rifle it increases to 70mp then 100mp on the second quickly adding up.
    Mechanized regiment plus the truck is 300mp 60f
    So if I got a second officer 200mp 35f plus 50mp 20f that's 250mp 55f barely makes a difference unless major somehow becomes 95 fuel or otherwise redistributed.
    One and only downfall okw would have is if buildings always cost fuel which I can understand with the panzerhq at least continuing to cost something after upgrade.

    Ya know since weapon racks are OP as I hear from people and never minde the fact double equipping significantly increases weapon drop chance or super expensive.

    Anyway continuing from my rant.

    I already know I cannot grenade buildings or his units in heavy cover as they can simply move out of the way since I'm not dealing with machine gun crews that need to pack up. Even though it takes about 3 grenades to kill 1 mg crew in a building.

    I opt to get assault engineers with flamethrowers instead.

    Meanwhile I was building lieutenant with the thought of getting 50cal since I am outnumbered and need to force a retreat.

    I also realise the lack of map controle and grab captain as I will have to deal with tanks well before I get my own and need to rely on at guns as bazookas will just hinder my infantry further.

    The smoke and grenade onto my units from falshemjager at 7 minutes 50 I was anticipating and tried to move up towards him and past the guessed grenade tossed trajectory and into his minimum toss circle and unfortunately did not move my units outward left and right.

    Was it a bad move yes What I needed to do was a circular spread some up some down left and right or simply split but I had only so much time to react and unfortunately made the wrong move. Heat of the moment you know.

    I was Trying to keep my units close as I know omegon will be nearby and i need to overwhelm now or never.

    At 10 minutes I killed off the flack half track with a lieutenant attack ground but still winde up dealing with omegons luchs nearly killing it except it gets a lucky decrew.

    But what I fail to see is how that grenade toss earlier is significant in comparison to 14 minutes when I have 2 75mm howitzers hitting milky and omegon in a massively clumped up group together also trying to overwhelm our infantry In the same fashion. Their are reasons to have your units together as well as separated.

    By 15 minutes ish I have first 105mm sherman.

    20 minutes my 240mm barrage does absolutely nothing to even the 120mm crew it lands next to such a waste of muni.

    By 22 mins we have both panzer hq's destroyed and I have 2 Sherman 105mm.
    Jagedpanzer kills a sherman but on second encounter I kill it.

    My main focus is to do manpower damage to all of those infantry units. But by the end of it all I brought back was the difference in units killed vs lost if your counting vehicle crews lost as the game does and had second highest damage overall.
    We still had fuel and fuel income we just could not claw our way out.

    Not that I wanted to be critiqued over minor details but I thought that massive unit cluster at 14 minutes was a prime example of what rocket artillery exceeds at and what 2 factions happen to lack.

    Major and Brits Call in arty is really only good at hiting stationary structures within close range has warning flare
    that Even an mg can unpack out of the way and the call in required vision.
    On top of it I dont get an advanced medium or a heavy so I am lacking 3 ways vs okw and 3 ways vs wehrmacht in the case of 2 advanced mediums including the brumbar to 105mm Sherman comparison since heavy is commander based.

    double equipping same weapons are a costly replacement to elite troops compared to haveing a manpower option if things go wrong ontop of continually paying for call in arty with flare and limited range. Imagin if all artillery pieces cost 30 munitions to fire like the zis gun and su-76 suddenly the vaiablity of that unit and usage as an artillery piece would drastically lower even with that small of an amount.

    On map unit with off map artillery barrage cannot be spammed all game long like a true on map nore cause the same level of devastation for that matter.
  • #29
    5 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307

    since we are talking about gameplay mistakes among other things rather than the actual topic and lack of a stock unit as I quote "apples to oranges"

  • #30
    5 months ago
    Rommel654Rommel654 Fort Eustis, VAPosts: 932 mod

    No offense intended.

    The video you posted to indicate that the lack of non-doctrinal rocket artillery cost you the game did not send that message. It comes across as you were "getting push back most of the game and I need a piece of equipment that is a game changer."

    My two points are simple:
    1) In the posted game there are other things you can control that would have helped you much and long before late game rocket arty could have been available.

    2) The game is more about time that equipment. You have enablers like recon, smoke and simple tactics like screening. It appears he played a short strategy and it paid off. You didn't screen at all or have any resources dedicated to screen activities, so at each engagement he had what was needed to counter you.

    It often did not matter how much of his stuff you destroyed. You didn't take ground and you didn't gain time.

    The game has changed much over the last few years. I remember the arguments that about the addition of the USF mortar and heavy tank would break the game as well as dozens of other units, timing or events. Maybe USF units, timing and playstyle has migrated center enough that non-doctrinal rocket arty is needed. I don't think it matters that much. I'm quite sure they could easily put enough time in to add it, but what else would they need to make vanilla or nerf to make it balanced? Soon, we would be close to having all like units with different uniforms?

    With the USF faction in particular it is challenging to use all abilities for the entire kitbag of units. USF takes more micro, but it's flexibility is unmatched.

    I think we all recognize that the map and starting locations have variables that will favor factions and playstyles over others. Add this with team play and you can rarely focus on units and types......as gameplay and decisions quickly dwarf all other conversation of useful unit comparison.

    If you are dependent on a specific unit like a werfer, stuka, katy, and don't want to be limited to a doctrinal choice like calliope or M7 as USF, then I submit you are either focused on units over tactics or USF play doesn't have the width for your successful playstyle and accepted strategies.

    RNG bombs have failed me more than saved me, and it sounds like you are no exception.

    If you look at your replays and see there is nothing else you could have done, anticipated, an no other tactic or build order or decision would have made things better, then maybe the game is broken as you say. In the game I watched it was the decisions you and your team mates made (or didn't) and the ones your opponents made in the first 10 minutes that set the conditions of victory. Not the units built late in the game as you tried to fight out of your base.

  • #31
    5 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 307
    No I understand and never Intendeed lack of rocket arty to be assumed reason for failure. I'm well aware of gameplay mistakes/ choices and teammate effectiveness. The game quickly snowballed and I realized their would be not much I could do to change the game no matter what, i accepted that and continued playing for what the game was worth.

    I was mearly pointing out their was a point in the game where rocket arty would have been a superior choice over other options as other factions would be quick to notice and take advantage of.

    If I myself were In their shoes with the upper hand I would have a greater chance to be squad wiped lost my rifleman vet as to also lack snare.

    In my current position if I get Jackson for any incoming heavies I would lack vet do to lack of vehicles to play against and have no vet for hvap ammo to take on the heavy.

    All this in consideration I chose to inflict as much manpower bleed as possible with 105mm shermans and just use at guns for any vehicles.
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