Obersoldaten should have an earlier opportunity to play

#1
1 year ago
Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
edited May 2019 in Balance Feedback
I always thought that Obersoldaten was late at T4 because it was the time to start using medium tanks and Obersoldaten itself was inconsistent with the infantry. So I want to change Obersoldaten from T4 to T1 but like mg34. Need to build T2 or T3 to use. And reduce the accuracy of the grenadier and the amount of blood. I think this change can make the diversity of the OKW infantry not focus on the national throw Soldier

Comments

  • #2
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    I'd say 2 trucks is ideal. They can then be rushed if needed and hopefully open up some fun med/mech play
  • #3
    1 year ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    I can definately agree with this 2 of any truck would allow them to join a bit earlier they always feel a bit late and like you said bring in more mid game play.
  • #4
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 880

    We should remember that Allies dont have non-doc elite.
    Pion, Gren, PzGren are really well designed with a trade off of LMG42 lose close range effectiveness or 2xSchreck lose AI.
    The other side, Sturm starter unit with default stg44, Volk with stg44 upgrade, an Ober with LMG34 can destroy a Riflemen holding a Bar & a M1919. Their AI power is so powerful for Soviet non-doc infantries.

    I dont ask for nerf, just a reminding how well armed Okw infantries are.

  • #5
    1 year ago
    Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
    edited May 2019
    No elite? The punishment camp is not an elite? Lieutenant, isn’t the elite? The okw infantry has a way to fight, to maintain the distance or use the vehicle or hmg support, instead of always using the infantry to confront the front. And rm itself manpower 280 and Ober is the difference between the accuracy and blood volume of 340 itself? Even if rm takes double m1919, it will lose Ober. Then why do I want to reduce Volk's blood volume and accuracy? Because Volk is too versatile and can even replace Ober. So turn Volk into a versatile auxiliary and let Ober become the main force, and the alliance Army players will not have a sustained and fierce attack in the early stage. At the same time, players who encourage okw will reduce the production of Volk.
  • #6
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 880

    1: Lieu & Cap are 'tech unlocking free units'. Lieu & Cap are only 1 on the field
    2: Unlock either one of them leave USF lack of either MGs or ATguns
    3: Unlock both Lieu & Cap leave USF lack of Light vehicles
    4: Lieu & Cap gained Smoke ability, 2 Rifle models are changed to Rear. Their squad is 3 Riflemen & 2 Rear models => weaker in survival-bility
    5: Lieu & Cap have a single Thompson
    6: Lieu doesnt have snare, Cap doesnt have combat utility.

    Let me tell you how Lieu & Cap were when their 1st design in 2014:
    Lieu was 5 model Riflemen, holding a Thompson & a Bar by default
    Cap was 5 model Riflemen, holding 2xBazooka by default
    Cap On me! remove all squads pinned status in 45meters. A single smoke could let Cap moves behind your defensive line and On me! 5-6 squad is behind your weapon teams.
    Cap Monitoring ability could apply to team mate build. A T34 could have 25sec build time.

    Further more. Did I say its a problem to USF? No. Its a problem to Soviet core infantries.


    Volk was too weak back then, and Sturm is busy fixing tanks. Ober is there at late game for a reason. Replace Sturm for AI firepower.
    Volk doesnt have to be lower hp or accuracy. They should be less in utility, at the first look: move Sandbag & Scavenge to Sturm.
    Ober available when there are 2 HQ on the field, promoting OKW Light tanks game play is a good idea. But I want to see how it works to Soviet. Their Light tank tech is 70 fuel late. Consider when an SU76 is on the field, Okw has a Luch & a Puma.

  • #7
    1 year ago
    Hower12Hower12 Posts: 39
    Well... you refute a lot of things.
    I slowly answer you:
    1- You have not said the problem of usf but you use rm as an example. Who knows that you think there is no problem with usf? Since you are a Soviet problem, please use the example of the Soviet Union?
    2- My previous article only said that Lieutenant is an elite infantryman who did not say Captain, but I can tell the truth that as long as I get a double bar, even the majors will have the ability to fight.
    3- Don't take the 2014 thing to explain, it doesn't make sense to take the current version.
    4- You said that the problem of the Soviet core infantry can only say how manpower compares
    5- Have you not used a disciplinary camp? Otherwise, how do you say the Soviet core infantry?
    6-You should know that okw's T3 can be repaired and is very efficient.
    7-Whether it has an effect on the Soviet Union depends on the player's tactical program. The tactics are not good, no matter how strong the army will fail.So please use AT more.
    8-This is your previous picture This is the photo you used a few months ago. How many chances do you think Obersoldaten will appear in these three battles

    Basically I answered all the questions so you can ask questions again..
  • #8
    1 year ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 696
    I think moving sandbags and salvage from volks to sturms is a good thing. Then their cost is appropriate.

    Or remove their stgs all together. This way sturms and obers become more neccesary, and volks can screen for obers or build cover instead of replacing them late game. Sturms wont be replaced combat wise after a few minutes either. This will also make their cost appropriate.

    Just my two cents guys.
  • #9
    1 year ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    I'd say 2 trucks is ideal. They can then be rushed if needed and hopefully open up some fun med/mech play

    Just like what he said. That is a great idea. Allies often have more access to doctrine units, which are often better than what the Axis has available except only JLI currently. After 2 trucks, should then be the Obersoldaten accessible. That is a great idea. Available in base HQ.

    OR

    Make Obers already available in Mechanized base, replace it with Walking Stuka to last base, since some regard it as an issue having early arty. Just a thought.

  • #10
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 880

    3 Ober whip out all 2 retreating Paratrooper squad 3 & 4 men in my last game (both had ~40 50% of total hp), shooting in mid range. Ober is the most powerful non-doc AI infantry.

    I afraid to see them come much earlier (if Ober replace Stuka in Mechanize; instead of 2 trucks). But I can not assume, need to see how it will work.

  • #11
    1 year ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @C3Tooth said:
    3 Ober whip out all 2 retreating Paratrooper squad 3 & 4 men in my last game (both had ~40 50% of total hp), shooting in mid range. Ober is the most powerful non-doc AI infantry.

    I afraid to see them come much earlier (if Ober replace Stuka in Mechanize; instead of 2 trucks). But I can not assume, need to see how it will work.

    I think the upgrade should be available after 2 bases built. That would make sense. Or maybe available as when Obers are after 2 bases. It would take mid game until anyone can get Obers with MG at least. Even then would put them on a downside if they try to even build 3 Obers considering their price. Maybe upgrade should be only available last base, but I am not too sure about that. Comes too late then.

    I think upgrades should be available after 2 bases built. Obers accessible after 1 base (maybe that is asking for much) but then they will only have bolt actions, no current upgrades available. That seems justified.

    I have an interesting upgrade options idea.

    Another new option would be:
    5 man costing 60 ammo, but no MG upgrade available. Become more of a defensive unit. Have additional rate of fire bonus when only behind cover, only when this option is chosen.

    Just to spicen up things a little.

  • #12
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 880
    edited May 2019

    Ober should have LMG34 upgrade, they are elite. Though if they come much earlier, perhaps they need to re-work Volk to be a defensive unit, or being a meat shield & utility unit as Cons.

    Sturm powerful at close range, Ober powerful at mid-long range is more than enough force to whip out any Allies infantry below Ranger & Shock.

    If take out Volk stg44, 2 HQ required is quite too late. So Ober available (with LMG34 upgrade-able) in MechanizeHQ and replace their place with Stuka to PanzerHQ, is ideal to me.

  • #13
    1 year ago
    TobbacosTobbacos Posts: 34
    edited May 2019

    Yes bring Obersoldaten more early after 1 converted truck.
    Also make infantry sections more cheaper like 250/60 manpower because 280 manpower is too expensive for 4 man squad

  • #14
    1 year ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    Obers available after 1 HQ, but upgrade is locked.

    Upgrade becomes available after 2 HQ, MG34 becomes available.

    Sounds fair!

  • #15
    1 year ago

    Make it a single squad like cap or lieutenant, give it 5 people, 2 lmgs and let them be called once a second truck is deployed. This way if it survives untill vet 5 OKW it will be almost unkillable by infatry but it will still be just one squad.

  • #16
    1 year ago
    NapalmNapalm Posts: 305 mod

    Moving to the balance section of the forum.

  • #17
    1 year ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 2,006

    @C3Tooth said:
    We should remember that Allies dont have non-doc elite.

    So? Wehr doesnt have non-doctrinal TDs with 60 range. Dont see how that makes any difference

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