WER - TIGER ACE RUSH- BROKE THE GAME

#1
8 months ago
Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
edited June 2019 in Balance Feedback

Nothing else to say

Problem

  • The game is unplayable
  • Allowing the Werhmacht to rush for Tiger Ace by 15 minutes is a total disgrace for gameplay
  • All 4v4 or 3v3 games are Allies forces facing 4-3 Wehrmacht players abusing this

Even if your team is dominating, 4 enemy Tigers will spawn out of nowhere, as you can see there is no need for contesting Ammo if you are abusing this.

Solution

  • Lock this tank unit behind more restrictions so it doesn't come extremely early into the game
  • Return it to Veterancy 0, as it was designed by the Balance/Mod Team during the new Commanders development testing.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    8 months ago

    Why it is Ok for king tiger to be in tech tree but not OK for tiger ace to be in tech???

    And save up for one big tank make you vulnerable to light or medium tank rush.And even when you save up the same amout of resource when enemy have tiger ace you would almost have 2th TD out already.

    And i question your skill since how did you lose all of your army in 15 min???

    If enemy rush tiger that mean they did not have squad wipe machine like panzer wafer.But you still some how manage get all of your army kill in 16 mins.No wonder why you feel power less when tiger come out because when it come out you barely have army left to fight them.

  • #3
    8 months ago
    javabaljavabal Posts: 88
    edited June 2019

    Why it is Ok for king tiger to be in tech tree but not OK for tiger ace to be in tech???And save up for one big tank make you vulnerable to light or medium tank rush.And even when you save up the same amout of resource when enemy have tiger ace you would almost have 2th TD out already.And i question your skill since how did you lose all of your army in 15 min???If enemy rush tiger that mean they did not have squad wipe machine like panzer wafer.But you still some how manage get all of your army kill in 16 mins.No wonder why you feel power less when tiger come out because when it come out you barely have army left to fight them.

    I will say the same thing as I said in another thread: It does not matter if the fuel is the same or not. The subject is that the tiger and tiger as is a heavy tank and as such should reach the field in the late game like all the rest of the heavy tanks. Apart we must take into account that the tiger has no construction time which is an even greater advantage.

  • #4
    8 months ago
    Holyspirit999Holyspiri… Posts: 81
    edited June 2019

    Heavy tank is just a type of unit that you have as an option to invest in to.

    It is not one heavy tank to rule them all.

    According to to c3thooth.

    you need 470 to get tiger right?

    as soviet at 465 you will get 3 t-34

    So take tiger vs t-34 as example

    When 3 t-34 tread flank shot with tiger t34 can out dps the tiger.
    And as infantry support role imagine you split 3 t-34 in to 3 section of map and fire at infantry it also out dps tiger too.
    Only sernario that tiger can use it strenght(armor) and probley win the fight is "frontal shot tread off" which only useful agaist low level player who order there tanks to apporch tiger with no real plan except from"fire at it"

    If you have no skill to get that flank shot off you can always invest TD.With equal amout of resource you can get 2 su-85.This unit does not require much skill or micro like t-34 but can counter or even shutdown the tiger very well.Your TD can out range and get "free shot" or enemy tiger and as long as you keep snare squad between your SU and enemy tiger 99% of the time he won't rush you.

    Damm why I have to explain the basic of the game in "balance section".Maybe we should have rank cheacking for anyone who ask for game balance change before they can post anything.Because some player don't know the basic of game and still ask for game balance changing.

  • #5
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    Save the excuse of "you should have at least 2 tank destroyers by that time, yikes" surely everyone will rush 2 tank destroyers against enemies that DON'T BUY MEDIUM TANKS or even light tanks.

    -4 Werhmacht players spamming T0 mgs, securing one fuel no matter what and if possible both of them.
    -Built 1 fuel cashe and there you go .... 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes to face enemy infantry and some T-70

    -This mechanic is simply abussive and needs to be repaired.
    .
    .

    ¿Do you even think it is coincidence to spot 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes into the game? I wonder how can 4 people aim for the same tactic at the exact same timming hmmmmmm .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    It must be Allied forces fault for not knowing that they will be facing 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes.

    YES that must be it!

  • #6
    8 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721
    Axis player: Pershing is abomination that USF should not even have.
    Axis player: If you cant get 2 TD when Ace is coming at 12min, its Allies learn to play.

    Im learning. Thats how I do double more damage result compared to the rest of other players most of the match with USF (but only if Im able to reach to late game though)
  • #7
    8 months ago
    ankleankle Posts: 32
    edited June 2019

    balance team is NOT INTERESTED in balancing team games

    we had peak team game (4v4, 3v3) balance about a year and a half ago when the balance team was actively balacing team games. This negatively affected 1v1 so they decided to ignore team games and only balance 1v1

    this is why team games have suffered over the past year, every patch is designed only with 1v1 in mind, how each change effects team games is not considered, this is irrelevant to the balance team, all changes are 100% for 1v1

    every change included tigers 0cp are 100% based on 1v1 only

    if you want a competitive team game experience the answer is: play another game

  • #8
    8 months ago
    > @Patrol_Omega said:
    > Save the excuse of "you should have at least 2 tank destroyers by that time, yikes" surely everyone will rush 2 tank destroyers against enemies that DON'T BUY MEDIUM TANKS or even light tanks.
    >
    > -4 Werhmacht players spamming T0 mgs, securing one fuel no matter what and if possible both of them.
    > -Built 1 fuel cashe and there you go .... 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes to face enemy infantry and some T-70
    >
    > -This mechanic is simply abussive and needs to be repaired.
    > .
    > .
    >
    > ¿Do you even think it is coincidence to spot 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes into the game? I wonder how can 4 people aim for the same tactic at the exact same timming hmmmmmm .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    >
    > It must be Allied forces fault for not knowing that they will be facing 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes.
    >
    > YES that must be it!

    If enemy spam mg i would go sniper or scout car.If i already build con i will tech up for motar and use flare and smoke to advance.

    So basicly your start up situation is

    -german get 1-2 feul and you barely get any

    -enemy build cache which is -250 mp and you can't take advantage from that enemy set back.

    -enemy get tiger out when you still get t-70

    Well all of that is a recipie of how to lose a game.

    The balance should be adjust base on situation when both side have equal amout of resource to play the game not base on one losing player don't know how to punish enemy weakness and get no resource then cry out for balance.

    I already show you the solution which is use medium tank to get flank shot.And i know some player don't have enough skill to pull that of that why I told you to buy specialise unit like su85 to make up for your lack of skill which you also refuse it build it then how the hack Will I be able to help you then????????
  • #9
    8 months ago
    > @C3Tooth said:
    > Axis player: Pershing is abomination that USF should not even have.
    > Axis player: If you cant get 2 TD when Ace is coming at 12min, its Allies learn to play.
    >
    > Im learning. Thats how I do double more damage result compared to the rest of other players most of the match with USF (but only if Im able to reach to late game though)

    Your damage mean nothing when you fight shit player.You can farm damage all day by build DPS unit that is mostly TD.And yes if your opponent get tiger and you get t-70
    and you can't do shit that is definately learn to play issue not about balance.
  • #10
    8 months ago
    You know what we could take all day arguing it will never end.Just show your rank the we can discuss after that because person who don't know how the game work should not be able to mess with game balance.
  • #12
    8 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721

    T70 itself already come late compared to other faction Light. It giving almost no advantage to build in a T70 because how few of the time it has before a Pz4 comes. The T70 vet3 is sight god, feed it to vet3 when Pz4 on field is a hard job though.

    • AAHT: 75fuel with no side tech, 105fuel with side tech (weapon & grenade)
    • Stuart: 105fuel with no side tech, 135fuel with side tech.
    • AEC: 110fuel with no side tech, 140fuel with side tech.
    • Puma: 130fuel
    • Luch: 125fuel
    • T70: 160fuel with no side tech, 180fuel with side tech
    • As Pz4 is 275fuel, Ostwind & Stug at 245fuel. Either one of them can kill T70.

    I wish all Medium tank tech of all faction cost 100fuel more. Giving more time for Light game play, since its my favorite. Not a pack of Medium Heavy just mindlessly charge in.


    Of course everything I said mean nothing.
    Something like I lost alot as Allies is I should learn to play, I win alot as Axis is because Allies players have low skill. Damage mean nothing. Using 3 Jacksons to fight 2 Panther and a Tiger with the result of Panther/Tiger dead with 2 Jackson alive is just farming damage
    Does that ^ mean something?


    Currently no one say Tiger and Ace is op, its simply just its time mark. What does Axis say when IS2 is available when Soviet tech all 4 Tiers? Or USF can skip Jackson 140fuel for another 90fuel to get a Pershing? No, only complains the Anvil Churchill has no CP, but ignore King requires no CP too.

    The Command point was given to make every player fights to gain enough point to able to send in Heavy. When my friend Brit was being new to the game, I & others reached to 10-12 CP, almost able to call in Heavy. He was only 6 CP, because he sim city, sit in defend and did nothing. He could not send in Heavy. Thats the point.

    • Requires only CP, Heavy has no build time to be on field, its Axis advantage since they have various Heavy in docs,non doc (King, Tiger, Ace, Elephant, Jadtig, Sturm, or just Panther command). Allies depends alot on their 1min build TD each.
    • Requires only tech, like this patch, Tiger at 12-15min.

    Should all Heavy (King, Tiger, Ace, Elephant, Jadtig, Sturm, IS2, ISU152, Pershing, Churchill croc/arve) should be snapped into a certain tech to give them build time, also requires 13 CP?
    Hang on, it sounds like a big nerf for Axis

  • #13
    8 months ago
    > @C3Tooth said:
    > T70 itself already come late compared to other faction Light. It giving almost no advantage to build in a T70 because how few of the time it has before a Pz4 comes. The T70 vet3 is sight god, feed it to vet3 when Pz4 on field is a hard job though.
    >
    >
    > * AAHT: 75fuel with no side tech, 105fuel with side tech (weapon & grenade)
    > * Stuart: 105fuel with no side tech, 135fuel with side tech.
    > * AEC: 110fuel with no side tech, 140fuel with side tech.
    > * Puma: 130fuel
    > * Luch: 125fuel
    > * T70: 160fuel with no side tech, 180fuel with side tech
    > * As Pz4 is 275fuel, Ostwind & Stug at 245fuel. Either one of them can kill T70.
    >
    > I wish all Medium tank tech of all faction cost 100fuel more. Giving more time for Light game play, since its my favorite. Not a pack of Medium Heavy just mindlessly charge in.
    >
    > Of course everything I said mean nothing.
    > Something like I lost alot as Allies is I should learn to play, I win alot as Axis is because Allies players have low skill. Damage mean nothing. Using 3 Jacksons to fight 2 Panther and a Tiger with the result of Panther/Tiger dead with 2 Jackson alive is just farming damage
    > Does that ^ mean something?
    >
    > Currently no one say Tiger and Ace is op, its simply just its time mark. What does Axis say when IS2 is available when Soviet tech all 4 Tiers? Or USF can skip Jackson 140fuel for another 90fuel to get a Pershing? No, only complains the Anvil Churchill has no CP, but ignore King requires no CP too.
    >
    > The Command point was given to make every player fights to gain enough point to able to send in Heavy. When my friend Brit was being new to the game, I & others reached to 10-12 CP, almost able to call in Heavy. He was only 6 CP, because he sim city, sit in defend and did nothing. He could not send in Heavy. Thats the point.
    >
    >
    > * Requires only CP, Heavy has no build time to be on field, its Axis advantage since they have various Heavy in docs,non doc (King, Tiger, Ace, Elephant, Jadtig, Sturm, or just Panther command). Allies depends alot on their 1min build TD each.
    > * Requires only tech, like this patch, Tiger at 12-15min.
    >
    > Should all Heavy (King, Tiger, Ace, Elephant, Jadtig, Sturm, IS2, ISU152, Pershing, Churchill croc/arve) should be snapped into a certain tech to give them build time, also requires 13 CP?
    > Hang on, it sounds like a big nerf for Axis

    Damage does not mean anything It is the level of skill that you enemy have that matter.I can play with bot all day long and get massivesive amout of damage too.

    Playing with infeeior player and farm damage is not valid.

    And in team game there are always some kind of role in unit build let said your mate build kv-1 to tank shell for you then you build jackson to support him.

    The end game result surely favour you since you play TD.Does that mean you mate suck??

    So the idea of getting a lot of dammage number and said hey I am good at this is wrong here.
  • #14
    8 months ago
    OberOber Posts: 106
    edited June 2019
    This sound like L2p issue but seriously if a wehrmatch player go straight to ace tiger is almost a suicide, that mean no ostwind, no stug, no ht plus the allies got the best counter against heavy tanks, and then i wonder how the player can get 400 fuel to get the tiger and hold the ground vs 3 kind of nations with all those variety of weapons? the tiger must come early because this need vet to fight vs penals at, inf AT, mass firefly and jackson, btw why the forum moderator is not closing it? Because is not following the forum rules
  • #15
    8 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    Here is a simple Fix everyone can agree on.

    All heavy Tanks arrive at the same CP which I assume most heavy Tanks arrive around 12 CP.

    12CP or later. For all Heavy Tanks, Doctrinal Heavy Tanks.

    How does that sound to everyone.

  • #16
    8 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721
    I dont accept that, Tiger at 12min is Allies l2p issue. You should not take our chance to learn.
  • #17
    8 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,665

    @Balanced_Gamer said:
    Here is a simple Fix everyone can agree on.

    All heavy Tanks arrive at the same CP which I assume most heavy Tanks arrive around 12 CP.

    12CP or later. For all Heavy Tanks, Doctrinal Heavy Tanks.

    How does that sound to everyone.

    CP rate is different for each game mode.
    Its much faster in team games anyway.

  • #18
    8 months ago
    Holyspirit999Holyspiri… Posts: 81
    edited June 2019

    @C3Tooth said:
    I dont accept that, Tiger at 12min is Allies l2p issue. You should not take our chance to learn.

    Maybe share respondsibility of team game just clound your mind.OK imagine you play 1vs1 then you lose both feul the enemy build feul cache on half of the map and you do nothing to punish their investment then 8 min panzer 4 come out and you have only m5 halftruck then you yell "panzer 4 come to early!!!!"

    Is this L2P or balance issue?

  • #19
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301
    Then again

    "Why are Axis players only playing Werhmacht and rushing Tiger Ace at the exact same time?"

    Hmmm I wonder if there is something wrong since the last patch was introduced hmmmm

    Oh wait! Is just that all the allies are just bad for not knowing that there will be 4 or 3 Ace Tigers by 15 minutes mark.

    Typical excuses to avoid getting it fixed:

    1) U r nob learn di game
    2) everyone on your team should have 2 tank destroyers at least, so you can deal with our Heavy Tanks rush early into the game. If not you are all bad players
    3) Show me your rank noob - you are all bad for not knowing how to deal with 4 or 3 Ace Tigers by 15 minutes shaaaaaw me ya' rank!!!
    4) Last update had nothing to do with it >< Don't update anything else!! Leave it like it is

    And the joke goes on and on LOL
  • #20
    8 months ago
    Balanced_GamerBalanced_… Posts: 200

    @Katitof said:

    @Balanced_Gamer said:
    Here is a simple Fix everyone can agree on.

    All heavy Tanks arrive at the same CP which I assume most heavy Tanks arrive around 12 CP.

    12CP or later. For all Heavy Tanks, Doctrinal Heavy Tanks.

    How does that sound to everyone.

    CP rate is different for each game mode.
    Its much faster in team games anyway.

    That is true indeed.

    I mean, it should also be accessible or made possible for players to even acquire it in 1v1 also. Not that it is a big deal but the option should remain an option accessible, if you get what I mean. Neither Easy or Difficult to acquire!

  • #21
    8 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721
    edited June 2019

    Maybe share respondsibility of team game just clound your mind.OK imagine you play 1vs1 then you lose both feul the enemy build feul cache on half of the map and you do nothing to punish their investment then 8 min panzer 4 come out and you have only m5 halftruck then you yell "panzer 4 come to early!!!!"

    You talk exactly my skill, you got me there.

    To the point just imaging other to play below Easy AI just to able to speak l2p how to deal with the new patch.
    Kneel drop. Your power of imaging is beyond artists.

  • #22
    8 months ago
    > @Patrol_Omega said:
    > Save the excuse of "you should have at least 2 tank destroyers by that time, yikes" surely everyone will rush 2 tank destroyers against enemies that DON'T BUY MEDIUM TANKS or even light tanks.
    >
    > -4 Werhmacht players spamming T0 mgs, securing one fuel no matter what and if possible both of them.
    > -Built 1 fuel cashe and there you go .... 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes to face enemy infantry and some T-70
    >
    > -This mechanic is simply abussive and needs to be repaired.
    > .
    > .
    >
    > ¿Do you even think it is coincidence to spot 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes into the game? I wonder how can 4 people aim for the same tactic at the exact same timming hmmmmmm .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > .
    >
    > It must be Allied forces fault for not knowing that they will be facing 4 Tiger Ace by 15 minutes.
    >
    > YES that must be it!

    > @C3Tooth said:
    > Maybe share respondsibility of team game just clound your mind.OK imagine you play 1vs1 then you lose both feul the enemy build feul cache on half of the map and you do nothing to punish their investment then 8 min panzer 4 come out and you have only m5 halftruck then you yell "panzer 4 come to early!!!!"
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You talk exactly my skill, you got me there.
    >
    > To the point just imaging other to play below Easy AI just to able to speak l2p how to deal with the new patch.
    > Kneel drop. Your power of imaging is beyond artists.

    Just read how your mate handle the game bro.
  • #23
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    Lock the Tiger Ace behind 12 CP (to match Allies Heavy Tanks arrival) or something like that to stop players from abusing this "tactic" way too early into the game.

    Every team game 3c3 or 4v4

    1. Recruit 2 or 3 Mgs per player from T0 HQ
    2. Capture Strategic resources without early contest
    3. Support them with 2 or 3 T0 Infantry Grenadiers to destroy enemy light vehicles with ease
    4. MG42s early wall will still do great against one early light vehicle (penetration values)
    5. built one or two fuel cashes
    6. Recruit one Tiger Ace heavy tank per player around 12 minutes (best case scenario) or 15 minutes into the game
    7. Force surrender and make opposing players stop from playing more team games
    8. Blame opposing players for not being able to counter this "tactic" in-game and in forums.
    9. Keep abusing this "tactic" before everyone realizes it.

    Even on 2v2 you will face that tank without having the proper army composition to deal against it on time, however is easier to win on this mode but still ......

  • #24
    8 months ago
    Holyspirit999Holyspiri… Posts: 81
    edited June 2019
    Brain less mg spam work vs this man?????

    See I told you guys that we should have rank cheacking before let anyone contribute in balance section.

    You could use sniper that hard counter teamweapon or scout car to bleed enemy gren or atleast pin them in there heavy cover Try to fire the angle that mg is not facing and strike..Using motar is also other good option since it have flare when they get cover by con heavy cover they are safe to rain down accurate fire with the vision provide.

    Brit get section that can go and grab heavy cover frist and mg is really bad squad to attack section in heavy cover

    If you play rifle man will also be able to grab cover frist put them in heavy cover and you will have time to build fighting position to cover feul then their mg and gren spam will have hard time taking it out.

    This gonna be the last time I explain basic of the game for you.

    If you do not agree then show your rank if your rank in any mode of any nation is above 400 then we can continue talk.
  • #25
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    There is always an easy and never before thought solution for a smart kid ..... that will win every single game if applied as mentioned by >>> @Holyspirit999
    We all know which units counter which, now apply it all very fast into the game on a 4v4 as you "propose", are you really that obvious?

  • #26
    8 months ago

    You know why i don't talk about your teammate? because you will end up balme them with " my teammate suck"

    So You know the counter unit then how did german"Capture Strategic resources without early contest"????

    Having the counter unit is like using a knife and fight enemy with bare hand.
    It would be extreamly hard for the guy with bare hand to kill the guy with knife unless that guy is idiot.

    Let you pick sniper as counter unit.

    Are you telling my enemy MG and pioneer some how kill you sniper???
    Are you telling me that gren some how run up and kill you?

    Well if you play counter unit and enemy still somehow "Capture Strategic resources without early contest"

    Then only explaination that I have is "you suck"

  • #27
    8 months ago
    Patrol_OmegaPatrol_Om… Posts: 301

    @Holyspirit999 You are living in a fantasy world where everything you propose will work but I will explain your logic anyway:

    But let me say in advance that I expect you to be between top 10 rank at least on your main faction, due to "do this, easy win, never fails" or the impressive "you suck"

    1. According to you I play with other players sharing my share point of view on forums - duh
    2. According to you every Soviet player must rush for a sniper on 4v4 to counter mgs and he will win the game for you
    3. According to you a scout car will do all the work, not taking into consideration enemy grenadiers with Pfaust
    4. You are asking for ranks, let us all learn from you and your rank - be the example. We are not worth it according to your mindset.
    5. You propose easy solutions for every problem that we all know about but somehow just by saying "do this" does not means that it will work for all cases, specially snipers on 4v4 team games.
    6. Anyone that does not follows your easy solutions "sucks" lol

    Rest in peace @Holyspirit999

    Going back to the main topic of the Forum:

    • Tiger Ace needs to be locked behind 12 CP moreso to avoid the early rush and/or lock it behind T4 HQ.
    • Grenadiers are outperforming standard and Elite Doctrinal Allied Infantry, increasing the received accuracy should solve it.
  • #28
    8 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 721

    @Patrol_Omega it's your eel-two-pee ee-shoo
    So stop.

  • #29
    8 months ago
    robocskarobocska Posts: 32

    "Grenadiers are outperforming standard and Elite Doctrinal Allied Infantry, increasing the received accuracy should solveit." you joking right?

  • #30
    8 months ago

    1"According to you every Soviet player must rush for a sniper on 4v4 to counter mgs and he will win the game for you"

    Where did you get that statement?????

    My statement was "You could use sniper that hard counter teamweapon or scout car to bleed enemy gren or atleast pin them in there heavy cover Try to fire the angle that mg is not facing and strike..Using motar is also other good option since it have flare when they get cover by con heavy cover they are safe to rain down accurate fire with the vision provide."

    And this is my comment about counter unit

    Having the counter unit is like using a knife and fight enemy with bare hand.
    It would be extreamly hard for the guy with bare hand to kill the guy with knife unless that guy is idiot.

    Let you pick sniper as counter unit.

    Are you telling my enemy MG and pioneer some how kill you sniper???
    Are you telling me that gren some how run up and kill you?

    Where is "must rush sniper" and where did I give you the guarantee 100% game winning formular to you?
    I already told you counter unit ment to give you advantage but not guarantee victory.

    Flame other person by use make up statement is just make you look dumb here.

    2 Scout car out range grenfaust just like most tank out range panzershreak.You can hit and bleed them from range enemy bleed your scout car do not so did you take this in to your consideration??

    3 Well I did not ask anyone to learn from me.But since you come in balance forum and ask for game change to make up for consequence that come from lacking of your skill to get the feul for your self is not acceptable here.

    4 There are lot of varable in 4vs4 game but the counter unti that I give you will get you better chance of winning.

    5"Anyone that does not follows your easy solutions "sucks" lol" One more MAKE UP statement here.I did said if you have unit that hard counter something and still lose to the unit that get counter that mean you suck"

    Sniper hard counter MG if some how MG you 1 vs 1 with mg and get skill by it only once explanation is you suck.

    Stop MAKE UP statement to try to justify you salf and flame other.

  • #31
    8 months ago

    And you should tell us your rank to for your own credibility.From my rank at already prove that I know most mechanic of the game and be able to utilize it.But you you could be anyone that come from nowhere play the game 3 times and yell tiger come to early.

    When you(game) get sick(unbalance) who should you listen to? Doctor with PHD(high rank player who know how the game work and play it for very long time) or Some random dude from nowhere that have no degree(you)?

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