WER-Panzerschrecks-ALL

#1
1 year ago

Problem:
1. Unnerfed Panzerscrecks are DELETING Allied armor
2. Recruit two Panzergrenadiers and equip both of them with Panzerschrecks
3. Go and delete any medium armor on your path with one shot per Panzergrenadier squad
4. The game has stupidly gone unbalanced as on one side you have high burst weapons at high range solving your problems in matter of seconds with no much input or thinking requested

Posible Solutions:
1. Decrease damage values from Panzerschrecks -Best AT weapon for infantry needs to be nerfed is just way too stupid how easy and strong it is
2. Decrease AP from Panzerschrecks
3. Decrease Accuracy at max range

«1

Comments

  • #2
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876

    If anything, I only need Shreck damage from 120 to 119, to prevent instant 3 squads 6 shreck, thats all.

  • #3
    1 year ago
    mlkmlk Posts: 49

    totally agree, I had already made a post several months ago.
    but nothing changes

  • #4
    1 year ago

    Maybe give them one but with an increased RoF. Right now taking out half the health of a medium is just too much.

  • #5
    1 year ago

    @WunderKatze with only one squad of Panzergrenadiers.

    If by chance a full health T34-85mm get's ambushed or hit by two squads of Panzergrenadiers equipped with x4Pzscherks then it's instantly game over for the poor tank.

  • #6
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    edited September 2019

    Getting real tired of these counter-factual posts. Kind of wish there was a rule against posts based on an outright incorrect premise.

    Panzerschrecks do 120 damage. 2 Squads of PGrens do not one-shot medium armor. This is basic, easily verifiable factual information that anyone with the game still installed would know. Hell - you don't even need the game installed. A calculator will show you that 120 x 4 =/= 640 (most medium tank HP).

    Panzerschrecks are on mostly smaller more expensive squads who don't come with their own snare unlike almost all the Allied AT infantry options.

  • #7
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876

    I realized that 120 x6 isnt 640. Which is 119 damage x6 still kill a med tank. Big fail math calculating from me.

  • #8
    1 year ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848
    edited September 2019

    @Lazarus said:
    Getting real tired of these counter-factual posts. Kind of wish there was a rule against posts based on an outright incorrect premise.

    Panzerschrecks do 120 damage. 2 Squads of PGrens do not one-shot medium armor. This is basic, easily verifiable factual information that anyone with the game still installed would know. Hell - you don't even need the game installed. A calculator will show you that 120 x 4 =/= 640 (most medium tank HP).

    Panzerschrecks are on mostly smaller more expensive squads who don't come with their own snare unlike almost all the Allied AT infantry options.

    Whenever i use shreks, i always have to instantly retreat because of their insanely bad range. And rightfully so, shreks should be something that compliments your army, not Be the AT of the army.

  • #9
    1 year ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 297
    edited September 2019

    The biggest problem is that they belong to an army that already have high armor and many heavy tanks, so if it by any means necessary should be any faction that should held the most effective handled AT it would be Allies, but instead they have have zooks, thats work pretty balanced imo i would say with respective 80 dammage each and low pen, same with PIATS, the ptrs we dont even need to mention here. This is not really a l2p issue we talking here, its something that not qute fit in the games design with the balance between tanks, AT guns and inf, with those 2 mentioned first kinda losing its role and synergi. Often schreks are prefeared over at guns, sometimes even medium tanks, causing them not fit in very well in the army balance.

    Theres some easy sulotion to fix this problem however.

    1. Make the Pen value more in line with the zooks and lower the damage to same as them (80), of course the cost could be lower to 80 or something to compensate

    Theres absolute no reason they should have this more advantage over any other faction on handheld at, concider they already has higher armor on tanks in general and more choice to choose from to fight heavy armor in late game, rathar than relay on spaming FF, Jackson or su-85 thats completle defensless against inf.

  • #10
    1 year ago

    @mrdjjag81 said:

    The biggest problem is that they belong to an army that already have high armor and many heavy tanks, so if it by any means necessary should be any faction that should held the most effective handled AT it would be Allies, but instead they have have zooks, thats work pretty balanced imo i would say with respective 80 dammage each and low pen, same with PIATS, the ptrs we dont even need to mention here. This is not really a l2p issue we talking here, its something that not qute fit in the games design with the balance between tanks, AT guns and inf, with those 2 mentioned first kinda losing its role and synergi. Often schreks are prefeared over at guns, sometimes even medium tanks, causing them not fit in very well in the army balance.

    Exactly! Why does Axis have a strong AT weapon usually prefered over AT-guns to deal with the problem, while they already hold the majority of heavy armor tanks, instead of Allied forces having the best AT weapon for infantry? Is incoherent, even more so after some Axis tanks starts getting their armor increased, after reaching higher veterancy levels.

    Theres some easy sulotion to fix this problem however. Make the Pen value more in line with the zooks and lower the damage to same as them (80), of course the cost could be lower to 80 or something to compensate

    +100 It makes total sense
    No one should complain since they already argued how they are not strong at all, nor is it a pay per win, nor shall it "affect" their l2p issue.

  • #11
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    edited September 2019

    @mrdjjag81 said:

    Theres absolute no reason they should have this more advantage over any other faction on handheld at, concider they already has higher armor on tanks in general and more choice to choose from to fight heavy armor in late game, rathar than relay on spaming FF, Jackson or su-85 thats completle defensless against inf.

    Except their AT is on smaller, more expensive squads - Panzerfusiliers being the extremely stupid exception that was made for some reason that I'll never understand. These smaller squads do not carry their own snares. These smaller squads fight tanks with generally better AI power for cost. They need to do damage and get the hell out quickly, because they can not sustain prolonged engagements. This is not a new dynamic.

  • #12
    1 year ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    This is exactly why the shrek doesn't hit the broad side of a barn unless you are next to the tank you are shooting at. Its perfectly balanced. Its expensive, and is useless for most tank engagements unless the tank user went AFK. How do you think it feels to watch AT rifles constantly chip the health away from your tanks from any range, instantly, with no hope of it missing ? That is far better deterrent in this game than a shrek that will, almost entirely , miss. Then whatever shot the shrek will get destroyed by the next tank shot, or the supporting army, or both.

    You guys should play axis more before making comments on the balance of the game. You would soon see just how good shreks are. Probably better in low level games where people park their tank somewhere and leave it alone. I dont even make shreks anymore, because no one lets me even shoot the thing before i lose 2 + models to the tank i wanted to shoot. It is just not worth it, its better to use fausts + paks or tanks every single time.

  • #13
    1 year ago

    This is exactly why the shrek doesn't hit the broad side of a barn unless you are next to the tank you are shooting at.

    We wish we could believe you but is not that case, you are actually refering to Penal Batallions! Those are the ones that actually need to standing next to the tank in order to do damage, becuase you know .... they don't have Schrecks doing massive damage from a safe distance. #JustSaying

  • #14
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876
    Schreck x2 PzGren was needed to lower the health of T34 swamp so Gren can faust them.

    But nowaday Allied TDs are so highcost because theyre needed to fight Panther and Heavies. Which the armor and health only equal to T34-76. And that makes PzGren 2 schreck feel so powerful for their cost.
    - - -
    Remember 5 Sherman vs 4 Pz4? It would be 3200hp total of 5 Sher that PzGren have to shoot at.
    Gameplay today is mostly 3 Jackson vs 2-3 Panther without the appearance of core Medium tanks. And that would be 1920hp total of 3 Jacks for PzGren have to shoot at.

    PzGren was totally fine for their faction core design. But the faction core design is totally broken after hundreds of patch.
  • #15
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    Have you tried using infantry against massed AT squads?

  • #16
    1 year ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    PzShrecks are just pure raw damage which is kinda the point of PzGrens, yes, spamming it's an annoying tactic just like any other blobbing unit, but one has to manage to punish the player for that.

    See it like this...

    If enemy gets 3 PzGrens with 6 PzShreks yes it's going to do a lot of damage to your tanks but it's also costly for the enemy...

    You have the alternative of placing mines, using arty, mortars (specially 120mm or USF White Phosphorus), Katyusha, HMGs, and for example soviet heavies are no match for these squads before they shoot if you control them correctly (KV-2 / ISU-152) these with 1 shot will kill at least 2-4 models per shot depending how close they are to each other (might kill even more), you can also use 5M HT I think it's called, with Quad AA that also suppresses infantry you can also hold them there while your other support units or tanks fire against them, at this point the second hit will force them to retreat (they'll need to reinforce an expensive unit each time you force them to retreat this way)

    I have been in this scenario more than once, some I lose and some I win... the key here is to punish the player as much as you can to bleed their MP reinforcing these units, they more likely will be running out of MP after the 3rd time you make them retreat if you hit them successfully (Clearing infantry squads with 1 Katyusha is super satisfactory)

    Now I agree with the comments above... why PzGrens and PzFusiliers have such raw damage output when Axis already have the strongest tanks in the game? They have the strongest medium which is Panther, they have Strong AI tank which is the Sturmpanzer Brummbar that has good frontal armor, they have 2 Heavy AT Tanks Jadgtiger and Ele... also non-doctrinal heavy tank KT...

    I would say give people more options to use the units in a different way... give more upgrades to units so you can choose to them be either a more efficient AT squad (just like PzGrens with PzShrecks) or a more utility focused AT squad

    My idea is the following:

    Example 1:

    Give Penals 2 upgrades

    1 - 1 PTRS to the squad (this will unlock Sticky Satchel or "Target Weak Point")
    2 - 1 Bazooka (this will unlock another ability let's say a flare or smoke grenade(I'm just making these up))

    Example 2:

    Give PzGrens 2 upgrades

    1 - 1 PzShreck (will unlock an ability (not a passive) let's say "Increased Aim" (squad will be immobile but will grant the shot will hit and penetrate if it's within range, and give slightly more range only when ability is in use))
    2 - 1 Panzerbusche (will unlock "Turret Jam")

    In case you want 2 of the same you can just buy the same upgrade and you'll have 2 of the same weapon (instead of giving 2 weapons instantly, that will also leave a free slot in case you want to pick something else)

    Getting 2 same weapons will disable ability 1 and 2 in exchange of more raw damage

    You can get one of each but damage will be less than having 2 of the same weapon in case you have 2 of the same weapon the damage will be greater with either 2 PTRS or 2 bazookas (similar to the passive rangers have when holding bazookas or commandos holding Brens, except this time it will only apply when holding 2 of the same)
    This would mean less utility for the squad in exchange for more damage

    This is just an idea but I think it will allow more flexible playstyle and utility while still keeping the balance in damage (of course this is just an idea and might need to be refined, what do you guys think?)

  • #17
    1 year ago

    @Omintail321 I wonder why other players are stating that in fact there is an ironic problem of letting the faction with the strongest armor for medium to heavy tanks getting also the strongest AT weapons for their infantry.
    Even if 4 Pzgrenadiers don't obliterate a T34/85mm from one shot they will do so against other light to medium units, which happens to be clumsy and dull.

    The community is expressing a present problem that should be addressed even if you try to demerit one of it's statements.

  • #18
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876
    edited September 2019

    I barely see people complain comparing between Zook & Piat vs Shreck. I sure its around the "harder to micro with PTRS" for him.

    Eventhough Zook & Piat is weaker, but those are easy to use like Shreck and can actually kill Light tank in a blink. PTRS arent able to do that. You use Guard button vehicle so Cons can snare Light tank, after that Guard can slowly shoot it to death. Other AT weapons can delete a Light tank with a single right click.

  • #19
    1 year ago

    @Omintail321 your full arguments goes around x4 Panzschrecks not deleting a T34/85mm ? Do I even have to waste my time explainning it is a Doctrinal with slightly better stats than a standar tank? are you really that basic ????

  • #20
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @Patrol_Omega said:
    @Omintail321 your full arguments goes around x4 Panzschrecks not deleting a T34/85mm ? Do I even have to waste my time explainning it is a Doctrinal with slightly better stats than a standar tank? are you really that basic ????

    4 x Panzerschrecks won't even kill a T34/76.

  • #21
    1 year ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,333 mod
    edited September 2019
    (moderator input) let's keep on topic, please. I understand that it can be most frustrating for some when the numbers and statistics don't add up. If the community believes a subject is worth discussing, there is absolutely nothing wrong addressing it.

    If something is wrong or incorrect, I recommend nudging the user in the right direction (e.g. ingame stats, videos, replays, telling them the correct stats, inviting users for an online play to help them learn, etc.) so that the subject at hand is fixed and then discussed on top of that. However, never get personal against each other, as it never leads anything productive.
  • #22
    1 year ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 297
    edited September 2019

    I would love to know the data collected in term of damage schrek-squads causing to tanks comparison to other factions answer, i'm quite sure they a bit out of sync by now for what they was intended, not to forgot mention how much earlyer they hit the field now. Sure, they less of a problem in 1vs1 then what they could be in teamgames.
    I could also understand they are a bit hard to balance since all patches this game gone trough, but some toning down of the penetration would definitely be in place so they dont wreck light wihicle instanly and take away 3/4 health of midium tanks before they retreat, or tankdestroyers that cant defend them self with little armor and health

  • #23
    1 year ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876
    edited September 2019

    Thank lord I still keep these vids @mrdjjag81
    PTRS on Kubel; Shreck on Carrier


    PTRS on Pz4 with sachel; Shreck on Sherman


    Its easy to see PzGren drop models faster, though this is just a 1 squad vs 1 tank.

  • #24
    1 year ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 297
    edited September 2019

    Good video. All tought focus on just single handheld AT units it wouldnt been much scratched the p4 if it hasnt been for the scatchel. And even if it was a close fight between the Pgren and the scherman its quite ridiculous imo a single squad can handle a midium tank by itself before retreating. Of course it not work like that in the heat of the battle, but again good video to prove some concerning about this topic

  • #25
    1 year ago
    Ya looks about right. So get 3 pzgrens sherman is looking at about 5 seconds ish to live and 4 would be near insta kill.

    If sherman survives your looking at a long repair time and one hell of a time keeping out of shreck range.
  • #26
    1 year ago

    So in raw firepower the squad the cost more mp and cost more mun the upgrade kill the cheaper tank
    but you guy ignore that the

    • p4 engine is damaged so in real battle if it want te flee had harder time
    • the sherman easly kite the panzergrens and easly retreat
    • the penals stil perfom better aginst infantry after upgrade
      so what i see the squad that cost 340mp need to upgrade 100 mun kill a 105 fuel cost sherman while a penal what come in first minutes cost 300 mp upgrade 60mun? can't or can (you don't show us) kill a p4
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