[OKW/ALL] Heavy Tanks

#1
6 months ago
Concerned_Citizen_1Concerned… Posts: 1
edited April 17 in Balance Feedback

"Can now be called in if the Tiger II has already been deployed (or vice versa)"

This was a shocking revelation as i saw both tanks appearing in a 2v2 game. How in gods name can you -as an allied player- manage to keep 2 Heavy tanks at a distance? This new change really broke the balance as you have to allocate ressources to built 3-4 SU-85s to keep them away from you as you give up desperately needed resources to tackle infantry. Defense lines with anti tank guns and MGs are being rendered obsolte as the Sturm just punches holes into the defense while the tiger can easily push into the breach.
Can someone please explain why the change to permit 2 superheavy tanks on the battlefield for OKW and not for the Allies?
I mainly play Soviets which are really well balanced but need a lot of battlefield awareness while i ocasionally play Germans which feel more like a forgiving faction which can be played leasurly even if you haven't played for long time.
At the moment playing allies got more and more unbearable and the fun is being destroyed as you just react to the german initiative.
Anyone feels the same?

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Comments

  • #2
    6 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    If you figure out how to call in 2 King Tigers, let me know. Cause i would love to do that. If you are complaining about the sturmtiger being able to be used at same time as KT, well the sturmtiger is trash so it doesn't matter anyways. Also soviets and brits can call in plenty of uncapped heavy tanks, so there is that too.

  • #3
    6 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    Reflexively, I think the change is dumb and there's no need for them to have access to both tanks. From a gameplay point of view though, having both is such a tremendous waste of pop-cap that I can barely muster up enough interest to care that they do get them both.

  • #4
    6 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 299

    I think its a unnecessary change thinking of how limited allieds late game is in term of heavys compare to axis. This leaves you with no tacit to choice from to go either for tiger 1 or king when you can field both anyway. Not a smart change

  • #5
    6 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    It's only for the Sturm Tiger and King Tiger. No other combination of heavies is allowed.

  • #6
    6 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 880

    strange to have both SturmTig and King. but Panther command lock King.

  • #7
    6 months ago
    BlaCOHBlaCOH Posts: 56
    edited April 18

    it's not shocking to be able to deploy a heavy tank without commander ?
    Konigstiger is really unfair and unbalance, this unit is good againt infantry and tanks, why USF don't have Pershing ? and Russia don't have IS-2
    Since the beginning, this game is pro-Axis and it will remain

    @Andy_RE Can you play USF and see that an OKW player with a Konig and Sturmtiger it's just unbalance,
    Can you open your eyes and see the game,
    An USF player with a AT gun without bad penetration rate vet0 and bazooka with 0 penetration and just, how you want destroy a tank ?
    You must have Jackson, but since the last update, armor decrease and the since 2 last updates, cost increase

    Can you stop listen pro-Axis players who purpose you new updates,
    Why Konig is available without commander, and why the last update vet rate decrease.

    Go live with USF faction against players, and see !

    COHForAxis

  • #8
    6 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @C3Tooth said:
    strange to have both SturmTig and King. but Panther command lock King.

    ST is a highly specialist unit with limited use.
    CP is overpowering utility and offense/defense unit that contributes to fights all the time and makes units around it stronger.

  • #9
    6 months ago

    since when okw needs a late game ? a good okw player could finish the game in 30 mins with a good team mate no matter how strong is the allies.

  • #10
    6 months ago
    maldonmaldon Posts: 55

    concerned say:
    "At the moment playing allies got more and more unbearable and the fun is being destroyed as you just react to the german initiative"
    you express, those that many feel

  • #11
    6 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    I think it might give more flexibility to the commander to be able to use both since SturmTiger is very specialized and takes a lot of pop cap along with KT, I don't think it's actually worth risking that much since you'll have even less pop available for core infantry/support weapons or other vehicles.

    Not gonna lie, the combination sounds quite strong but SturmTiger is quite slow, super slow reload, no damage against tanks and if you get it while reloading it will get 100% chance of de-crew, even 1 AT shot while reloading will de-crew so it depends how tricky your enemy is micro-ing these tanks.
    I can tell it would be a pain in team games because you need to coordinate better, and not many actually do that unless you're in a party with friends that communicate through voice, in that scenario you have more chances of winning whenever the tank is reloading.

    I still need to experience that in a game, but I don't think it will be that common.

  • #12
    6 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 880

    SturmTiger is quite slow, super slow reload, no damage against tanks

    Damage 580. Pen 1000
    Damage area: near 580, mid (3.75m) 140, far (8m) 36

  • #13
    6 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    @C3Tooth said:

    SturmTiger is quite slow, super slow reload, no damage against tanks

    Damage 580. Pen 1000
    Damage area: near 580, mid (3.75m) 140, far (8m) 36

    I mean yeah it can hurt tanks and quite a lot but it's basically AoE, what I meant is that you're not going to face an ally heavy tank or TD with a SturmTiger because it can't shoot directly at it, it's just indirect fire that happens to have a huge area of effect and can hurt/stun vehicles if within the radius of blast, once it shoots it's basically harmless to vehicles until it reloads.

  • #14
    6 months ago
    SkazzSkazz Posts: 57

    Dont forget that Sturm always gets abandoned by its crew compared to Avre in which the crew is always glued to their posts xD

  • #15
    6 months ago
    TezozomoctzinTezozomoc… Posts: 33

    @Fax said:

    @C3Tooth said:

    SturmTiger is quite slow, super slow reload, no damage against tanks

    Damage 580. Pen 1000
    Damage area: near 580, mid (3.75m) 140, far (8m) 36

    I mean yeah it can hurt tanks and quite a lot but it's basically AoE, what I meant is that you're not going to face an ally heavy tank or TD with a SturmTiger because it can't shoot directly at it, it's just indirect fire that happens to have a huge area of effect and can hurt/stun vehicles if within the radius of blast, once it shoots it's basically harmless to vehicles until it reloads.

    Sturmtiger won't be facing allied tank because in 9 out of 10 encounters allied tanks frantically reverse. Because once it shoots, the opponent is most likely either loosing squads of infantry or about to loose some expensive tank. With this high damage it is almost a guaranteed one shot left for anything. Plus let's not forget about the grenade launcher ability that as easily evaporates infantry as the main gun. Paired with KT and antitank support it is near impossible to dispose of. Poke-shoot-retreat-push with KT. Really exciting game flow.

  • #16
    6 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    @Tezozomoctzin said:

    Sturmtiger won't be facing allied tank because in 9 out of 10 encounters allied tanks frantically reverse. Because once it shoots, the opponent is most likely either loosing squads of infantry or about to loose some expensive tank. With this high damage it is almost a guaranteed one shot left for anything. Plus let's not forget about the grenade launcher ability that as easily evaporates infantry as the main gun. Paired with KT and antitank support it is near impossible to dispose of. Poke-shoot-retreat-push with KT. Really exciting game flow.

    Yes but keep in mind you're more likely not going to see a KT and ST in a 1v1 match because it will take a huge popcap that can be used for support weapons and infantry or faster tanks.
    The thing here is that it will be used more likely in at least a 2v2 scenario, which means you have an ally to coordinate with in a bigger map.
    ST and KT will probably be very strong but still risky, it's strong to control certain area but these 2 tanks are somewhat slow, so you can either just push another VP or area forcing them to move and vulnerable to flanks in the process or simply plan a good flank with your ally.
    It's easier said than done of course, but if you manage to hit the ST while reloading it's basically done in 1 or 2 hits as much, also can use mines to slow it down while you hit it with an AT from distance or flank it when under engine damage.

    If you have an USF Ally they can build M36 or have P47s to force them to retreat from an area, or a Brit player than can use 17-Pounder or the call-in ability with planes that hit vehicles and infantry that will give a window of distraction, or as Soviet you can ram 1 with T34 and call in IL-2 to drop the tank very low or kill it in the act if well performed.

    Again, it's easier said than done but I've not faced this play yet, so I'm not entirely sure how I would personally handle that situation but that's what I can come up with.

    Even though I'm a firm believer that allies should have better AT to counter higher armor of Axis or at least cheaper alternatives to poor handheld AT for infantry.

  • #17
    5 months ago
    TezozomoctzinTezozomoc… Posts: 33

    @Fax
    All these counter options are good in theory, but reality of things is that M36 is a glass canon and if you derp after the first received hit, it is most likely dead, 17-pounder is nerfed to nonexistance by previous patches because it counters heavy vehicles really good. Now it can be killed with little effort by any indirect fire. IL-2 is present in a limited number of doctrines and if you have chosen a different one than say goodbye to any setup. Not to mention that IL-2 arrives after a couple centuries.
    Also 1v1 is a completely different CoH and it has a completely different meta.

  • #18
    5 months ago
    hallfromhallfrom BakuPosts: 4
    edited May 8

    @ARMYguy said:
    If you figure out how to call in 2 King Tigers, let me know. Cause i would love to do that. If you are complaining about the sturmtiger being able to be used at same time as KT, well the sturmtiger is trash so it doesn't matter anyways. Also soviets and brits can call in plenty of uncapped heavy tanks, so there is that too.

    Subtlety with the loss and capture of one of them. The Americans can do it calmly, drop the tank at the base and kill the crew ... they just have 1-2 tactics with heavy tanks. It is necessary to forbid the heavy crews to leave their vehicles. Heavy tanks fight to the end.

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