[OKW][All] Raketen

#1
4 months ago
BlaCOHBlaCOH Posts: 56
edited May 1 in Balance Feedback

Hi,

it is possible to nerf penetration of Raketen, this small unit is over cheated !

  • 5 soldiers
  • possibility to retreat
  • can be hide when vet 1
  • can penetrate all tanks easily
  • can be produce at first unit
  • large and long range ? (or same as others AT gun)

This unit have all avantages in this game !

Example : 3 Raketen vs KV8 flame 5 shoot without miss or "blocked" and tank destroy

Raketen = 100% penetration rate vs T34 76
Su 76 Vet3 = 80% penetration rate an Panzer IV

@Andy_RE Can you just compare to USF at gun for example or pounder

Thanks,

Comments

  • #2
    4 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 297

    Yeah it's overperform greatly, specially since the 5 men buff because that made a reatratable at gun way to endureable. It has no risk vs reward anymore, just mindless charging in. ´

    Also, the last 2 models can't be picked off one by one, seams like they always has a shared health so you
    practically have to damage it down to zero to decrew it. Unlike other at guns yout dosent have to go down to zero health to decrew them, it can get decrew it if you pick of 2 of the last 3 model carring the gun for excample. This is very frustrating waching raketen disappear with 1 in health.

    I guess they use the same system as the mgs, this should be change to same as how the at guns work

  • #3
    4 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    I think 5th man should be behind vet2 or 3 to reward players that actually position and use their AT well and not just spam, rak is somehow weak (I mean in durability) but since it has a retreat option is easy to not have it killed in the act if caught out of position and more so when it can camo at vet1.

    I think this retreat function should also be applied to soviet 45mm light AT

  • #4
    4 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876

    Playing as Axis, I notice that Allies use premium Med instead of core Med. T3485 E8 Comet. Rak is hopeless against KV Church.

    I recommend u not to use core Med.

  • #5
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    edited May 1
    Just put raketen inside a structure so it gets its range boost. If it still gets that these days.
    Plus the extra defense it should fair fine vs tanks with it's better fire rate + assistance from tank destroyers helps.
    jagpanzer I believe gets better pen ability at vet 1 and stug gets a stun at vet 1 to keep tanks within range my personal favorite which Is most similar to firefly but hits with a normal shot very nice I have no clue why axis never use these abilities....
    With easy access to mines and snare I never have a problem with heavier tanks and premium mediums as axis overwhelming my at gun.
    Nothing forcing my commander decisions here.

    So I think saying dont use core mediums is a bit much.
    That is like saying you need to build these commanders.
    Plus they did say at the beginning of the post 3 raketens tore through a kv8 flamethrower tank which is not a core tank.
    Their should always be alternate options not forced ones.
    I know 3 57mm not going to take on heavies that well either though.
    I've seen brumbar tear mine apart.
    I've also used the brumbar and this was before I heard about brumbar armor buff.
    So alot going on here.
  • #6
    4 months ago
    BlaCOHBlaCOH Posts: 56
    edited May 1

    Just again > @C3Tooth a dit :

    Playing as Axis, I notice that Allies use premium Med instead of core Med. T3485 E8 Comet. Rak is hopeless against KV Church.

    I recommend u not to use core Med.

    Rak against KV ? 2 Raketen have a high penetration rate against KV8 flame, I play Russian and i see that many times

    I don't speak about IS2... 100% penetration no miss no block^^

    Example KV8 vet2 against raketen 100% penetration: https://www.coh2.org/replay/105244/kv8-vs-raketen

  • #7
    4 months ago
    BlaCOHBlaCOH Posts: 56
    edited May 3

    How it's easy:

    You rush a tank middle/bad life, easy kill because penetration rate is too high
    And next you retreat quickly at base.

    Relic don't think: it's not cheated ?
    And prox Axis players : Please no don't touch this unit (cry)

    And relic don't nerf this unit^^

    End.

  • #8
    4 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848
    edited May 4

    The funny part of people thinking the reken is OP is, they dont play axis. I would rather have a pak40 than that piece of junk called a raken any day of the week. The raken is just plain trash, it misses at least 50 % of its shots, and even when it does not miss, it does not pen. It is just garbage.

  • #9
    4 months ago
    BlaCOHBlaCOH Posts: 56

    @ARMYguy a dit :
    The funny part of people thinking the reken is OP is, they dont play axis. I would rather have a pak40 than that piece of junk called a raken any day of the week. The raken is just plain trash, it misses at least 50 % of its shots, and even when it does not miss, it does not pen. It is just garbage.

    That's why a kv8 is dead in 5 raketen shoots, and how many remote-controlled shell I saw...
    50% what a joke...

  • #10
    4 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876

    KV8 has 960hp, which is 6 shoots.
    KV8 has 240 armor, Rak has 180pen at long range, 200 at close range. With 180 pen mean Rak has 75%. Thats mean requires roughly 8 shoots. If they all hit.

    There are times Rak shoots at a UCarrier that miss 2/3 times; or 2 Rak shooting at half hp T34 that miss 3/4 when I play Axis. In the opposite playing as Allies, I feel it almost always hit.

  • #11
    4 months ago
    BlaCOHBlaCOH Posts: 56

    May be we don't play the same game xD

  • #12
    4 months ago
    SkazzSkazz Posts: 57

    @BlaCOH said:
    Hi,

    it is possible to nerf penetration of Raketen, this small unit is over cheated !

    • 5 soldiers
    • possibility to retreat
    • can be hide when vet 1
    • can penetrate all tanks easily
    • can be produce at first unit
    • large and long range ? (or same as others AT gun)

    This unit have all avantages in this game !

    Example : 3 Raketen vs KV8 flame 5 shoot without miss or "blocked" and tank destroy

    Raketen = 100% penetration rate vs T34 76
    Su 76 Vet3 = 80% penetration rate an Panzer IV

    @Andy_RE Can you just compare to USF at gun for example or pounder

    Thanks,

    It was allready nerfed not too long ago, it had the possibilty to stealth at vet 0 before, and now you even have to uncammo to escape with it. And tbh, what about Soviet's foldable heavy machinegun? Its quite frustrating when it picks upp in a second and runs away aswell i can ensure you. I'm hoping they's rather buff this unit...

  • #13
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    edited May 6
    @Skazz
    Since you bring up machine guns that gives me an idea.
    Rather than getting rid of the raketens ability to retreat or puting it under vet.

    Give the reketen a set up and a pack up time just like machine guns so the retreat is not so immediate.

    Yes we know it has had some nerf but it has had buffs as well becoming essencially a whole new unit.

    Camo nerf sure but dont forget it got better range better turn speed better pen and an extra man since I've known this unit.
    And it can still be set inside a building with hmg crews makeing for a very troublesome combination and better yet used in a commander that can build said structures or taken and used by whermacht and their bunkers +hmg upgrade.

    (idk if this still exists but I knew at one point it also got a range boost while set up inside a building.)

    Currently it does this sort of slide right into being set up and rather quickly much faster than any other at gun I've seen other than the 45mm soviet gun plus turns really fast makeing it hard to flank.

    This would be the perfect unit for light vehicles but has turned more into a gun for takeing down medium to I'll say med-heavy since some units like kv8 flamethrower or crocodile are heavy units but are weird in a way that they are designed with less armor than their counterpart. So I would say their is this sort of medium heavy tank class among the heavy class tanks and it fairs fairly well up to that point.

    Once it has a pack up time
    At that point it might even become possible to give it camo again for players that rather have had it at vet 0 makeing it a better ambush unit and take away the very easy aggressive gameplay it is used for now and even give flanking infantry units a chance to kill the crew rather than an immediate retreat so easily as it has been compaired to a misplaced machine gun crew.
  • #14
    4 months ago
    TezozomoctzinTezozomoc… Posts: 32

    @Skazz said:

    @BlaCOH said:
    Hi,

    it is possible to nerf penetration of Raketen, this small unit is over cheated !

    • 5 soldiers
    • possibility to retreat
    • can be hide when vet 1
    • can penetrate all tanks easily
    • can be produce at first unit
    • large and long range ? (or same as others AT gun)

    This unit have all avantages in this game !

    Example : 3 Raketen vs KV8 flame 5 shoot without miss or "blocked" and tank destroy

    Raketen = 100% penetration rate vs T34 76
    Su 76 Vet3 = 80% penetration rate an Panzer IV

    @Andy_RE Can you just compare to USF at gun for example or pounder

    Thanks,

    It was allready nerfed not too long ago, it had the possibilty to stealth at vet 0 before, and now you even have to uncammo to escape with it. And tbh, what about Soviet's foldable heavy machinegun? Its quite frustrating when it picks upp in a second and runs away aswell i can ensure you. I'm hoping they's rather buff this unit...

    If we are going in to the realm of mochineguns, then I would like to remind you that Maxim has NO suppression, atrocious cone, 6 low health men and has a famoous "death roll" animation, while german MG42/34 teleport to a next available unit in case the carrier is shot.

  • #15
    2 months ago
    BlaCOHBlaCOH Posts: 56

    Example: KV8 flame vs Raketen --> 100% penetration rate it's not unbalance ?

    https://www.coh2.org/replay/105244/kv8-vs-raketen

  • #17
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876
    edited July 21

    Rak pen 200/190/180
    KV1 armor 350
    KV8 armor 260

    Rak on KV1 close range 200/350 = 57% pen rate
    Rak on KV1 long range 180/350 = 51% pen rate

    Rak on KV8 close range 200/260 = 77% pen rate
    Rak on KV8 long range 180/260 = 69% pen rate

  • #18
    2 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876
    edited July 21

    @Tezozomoctzin weapon team crew has no different stats, they all have 1.25 target size which is larger than basic infantry which is 25% chance of easier to die. Except Soviet crew has 6men which 50% tougher.

    All infantry has 80hp, except Sniper has 82hp.

    You want stats? I can provide.

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