[ALL][OST] Brummbär

#1
6 months ago
ClearCutClearCut Posts: 39
edited February 23 in Balance Feedback

Brummbär has undergone a lot of changes because players complained about costs and it's usability. Now I experience a unit that can shoot while moving and has almost a hit ratio of 100% against any kind of target no matter if it's moving or not. Compared to the USF M8A1 Howi it's a joke. It's fast now needs almost no support because it hits ALLIED TANKS and Infantry alike.
I think the buffs for it has been overextended.
Especially the hitting ability with "homeing" shots is quite to much. It was designed to counter blobs and buildings not to be an unsupported assault tank....
I'd suggest either make it slower again or make it only shoot while standing still...

Comments

  • #2
    6 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    That is odd, cause letting the brummbar shoot by itself is the worst way to use it. It is no where near as effective as putting it in hold fire and manually targeting its cannon. So if people actually let it fire automatically, they literally are doing it wrong.

  • #3
    6 months ago
    ClearCutClearCut Posts: 39

    Well either it is the dispersion of the shot or it's magically hitting. If can#t dodge the shot by moving at max range from one side to the other on auto shot and save my units it's strange. Because then the shot auto calculates where the unit moves.... I've even seen shots (animations) in testing where shots went far away from the unit still damaging it...

  • #4
    4 months ago
    ClearCutClearCut Posts: 39

    Still no change. Running brumm together with a panther is an almost impossible combination. While brumm kills/at guns and infantry, panther just hits tanks. Almost impossible to break this without losing a lot of MP and not even being able to kill it because of sight and doct. smoke ability... Realy try it out. It's horrible.

  • #5
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    Oh I know the feels. Axis units as usual.
    I've actually used brumbar in a 4v4 game when my team already had Panthers and I noticed allies tanks getting killed with us haveing fuel while I was sitting on island defending and no one attacking me anymore i decided to pump out 4 brumbars and walked right through their at gun line killed and destroyed 4 at guns and a ton of infantry I think i had like 150 kills and maybe 20 deaths. With Panthers backing me up they couldnt hold the line or build enough at guns for that much firepower.
    Game only lasted around a half hour.

    You really want to get quick tanks out try useing supply doctrin as whermacht and keep dropping fuel on the fuel point.

    I've had 4 panzers out in 15 minutes.

    Had one match where an okw player kept grabbing my fuel drops got out an extremely early king tiger around that same time frame.
  • #6
    4 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 297

    Well, theres one combo wors that soviet use, but thats commander bounded, and thats the isu su85 combo. Really dirty when the su spot for it and pick off inf, at guns, mgs - u name it. Elephant or jagd can counter but the ram + il2 and mark causing trouble to it. U need some good team play to counter that one

  • #7
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    edited April 24
    @mrdjjag81 have you used the ir halftrack yet?
    I think they have given it increased vision range instead of the map scanning it used to do since I've been away.
    Wondering how that was working with jag and ele and if any sort of setup time?
  • #8
    4 months ago
    XalloXallo Posts: 15

    even worse is Brummbar with ele oder jg in team games....

  • #9
    4 months ago

    Brummbar balance is one of the oddest things in this game.
    Armor: tons;
    Health: lots;
    Damage: huge;
    I'ts like a discount heavy tank with stats of one. There are tons of ways to balance this unit but for some reason they elude the balance team and we end up with armor buff... smh

  • #10
    4 months ago
    FaxFax Posts: 96

    I agree, it rarely misses and even if it does it still does quite an amount of damage.
    Maybe it can has a nerf to it's moving accuracy to be more forgiving to retreating squads.

  • #11
    4 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    This is factually false. If someone is hitting your units with the brummbar, they are microing the unit to attack ground which means hes not microing the rest of his army. If you only target squads, you quickly see how the brummbar literally hits nothing what so ever. So , it is a skill unit, the more skill you have, the better it is. If you don't micro it, its pretty bad. Look at wehr tier 4, there is nothing that really does its job very well in it. Brummbar is the only unit in T4 that actually does its job decently. Everything in T4 should be effective, the panther should do to tanks as the brummbar does to infantry when micro'd, yet clearly does not. And the p werfer is also trash.

  • #12
    4 months ago
    XalloXallo Posts: 15

    @ARMYguy
    Guy...the werfer is really good, in my eyes the best rocket artillery. And the Panther is good too, so...dont know how objective and/or experienced you are

  • #13
    4 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876

    Werfer & stuka is to whip, Kat & Cali is to force retreat or hold point.

    In late game where Vic point is crucial. Kat does the job better than Werfer, deny enemy from capping

  • #14
    4 months ago
    38Lightning38Lightni… Posts: 512
    @ARMYguy I have to disagree with a need to micro the brumbar yes you can micro it but it does wipe squads just useing attack command.
    I might attack ground over hedge rows or pre fire an approaching blob in center mass but you really dont have to honestly and the combination of its AOE and tracking you can hit a squad even if they think they hit retreat fast enough let alone trying to manually dodge left or right of the shots your still going to take damage maybe not a direct hit but regardless it is plenty of damage to force a retreat.

    I've taken out 6 zis guns with 4 brumbar push after useing supply drops on fuel point also utilizing its barrage like you should actually be useing with this tank. Axis allies backing me up with Panthers incase of vehicles which they had non anymore so brumbars just crushed at guns and infantry alike they could not build enough at and have any infantry so they surrendered after I destroyed the zis gun line.

    Ended the game with around 150 kills and 30 ish deaths.
  • #15
    4 months ago
    MorisMoris Posts: 68

    Brummbar will kill any infantry unit in two shots if you use the micro. Auto fire is really not the best way to use this self-propelled gun. I like this unit and I wouldn’t like that it was reduced. The only thing that could reduce the speed of turns, so that the player had a small chance to save the squad.

  • #16
    4 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    @Xallo said:
    @ARMYguy
    Guy...the werfer is really good, in my eyes the best rocket artillery. And the Panther is good too, so...dont know how objective and/or experienced you are

    There are plenty of threads explaining why the panther is bad. I don't need to go through them. There are also plenty of threads about how the p werfer is bad too. Having to drive your 1 shot arty HT to within tank range to kill something is not what i call, "good".

    As for the brummbar, what i said still stands. It is medicore when not micro'd, and good when micro'd.

  • #17
    4 months ago
    TezozomoctzinTezozomoc… Posts: 32

    @ARMYguy said:

    @Xallo said:
    @ARMYguy
    Guy...the werfer is really good, in my eyes the best rocket artillery. And the Panther is good too, so...dont know how objective and/or experienced you are

    There are plenty of threads explaining why the panther is bad. I don't need to go through them. There are also plenty of threads about how the p werfer is bad too. Having to drive your 1 shot arty HT to within tank range to kill something is not what i call, "good".

    As for the brummbar, what i said still stands. It is medicore when not micro'd, and good when micro'd.

    I can bet those panther threads are more about complaining that panther doesn't pen when it 'should'. IMO BEST tank in the game, and an all-rounder at that(yes-yes, infantry also melts)
    But back to the topic.
    It's all fun and games in microing a brummbar, but the fact remains that even if you miss - you still hit, and hit good.

  • #18
    4 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @ARMYguy said:
    There are also plenty of threads about how the p werfer is bad too

    Actually, you're bad, that's all.
    We've had to players tournament 2v2 for the whole day, pwerfer was a doomsday machine.

    As for the brummbar, what i said still stands. It is medicore when not micro'd, and good when micro'd.

    You can keep repeating it, stats and actual facts backed by games(again, I'm pointing out to the same tournament) say it is an excellent unit with performance deserving its cost and timing.

  • #19
    4 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    @Katitof said:

    @ARMYguy said:
    There are also plenty of threads about how the p werfer is bad too

    Actually, you're bad, that's all.
    We've had to players tournament 2v2 for the whole day, pwerfer was a doomsday machine.

    As for the brummbar, what i said still stands. It is medicore when not micro'd, and good when micro'd.

    You can keep repeating it, stats and actual facts backed by games(again, I'm pointing out to the same tournament) say it is an excellent unit with performance deserving its cost and timing.

    I know, you have told me i am bad since 2013. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, you know.

  • #20
    4 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    Glad you get it.

    Brummbar is still idiot proof as long as you face correct side to the enemy.

  • #21
    3 months ago
    BlaCOHBlaCOH Posts: 56

    This unit is a joke, no scared versus 2 anti-tank gun
    anti-tank tanks don't penetrate easily and it's a king vs infantry.

    Today Brummbar can not be compare with a another unit.
    It's easy to play with, your rush anti-tank gun and the you win.

    Against a proof that this game is update by pro Axis players, community would never accepted that...
    And this game who suggest update "represent" the community :smiley:

  • #22
    3 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 876

    Brum is AI vehicle, ATgun (as its name) AT weaponteam (infantry)

    Both are counter to each other, 1 AI unit should not equal to 2 AT units. Compare a Brum to 2ATgun is a fail comparison.

  • #23
    3 months ago
    LoveMeNowLoveMeNow Posts: 29

    Hi,

    This topic is interesting !

    My last game 1v1:

    2 Anti-gun USF vs 1 Brumbar, I needed to use penetration skill in both to penetrate this tank, but he doesn't and succeed to kill my 2 anti gun.
    Because what, his armor is too strong and I don't understand why this unit can rush easily 2 anti-gun.

    Wake up please, and open your eyes, pro Axis players love this unit and we know why, no Allies tank is equal to Brummbar.

    This game is now manage by a Community who play Axis factions, so this game is more and more unbalance.
    We have absent community managers, and they don't care about feedbacks, so why continue to speak here.

  • #24
    3 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    Someone either does not play axis or never have watched a single tournament, because wehr tier 4 is still never used and always results in losing when teched to it. So how is it fair to say a brummbar is OP? Is it OP because a late game, AI tank does its job? i mean come on, since the games release the brummbar never did its job at all, but i guess that was great fun for people that only play one faction. I am sure the same people loved how useless the ostwind was all these years too!

    Long story short, upload the replays, cause i would love to see 2 properly micro'd AT guns fail to force away or kill a brummbar.

  • #25
    3 months ago
    LoveMeNowLoveMeNow Posts: 29

    Just go play Allies Anti gun vs Brumbar and you will see who win.

  • #26
    3 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    edited June 11

    @ARMYguy said:
    Someone either does not play axis or never have watched a single tournament, because wehr tier 4 is still never used and always results in losing when teched to it.

    I supposed YOU are the one who does not play axis and didn't watched latest tournament, because brummbar was built in EVERY SINGLE GAME for 3 weeks straight up until the very last game of finals.

    In fact, last torunament that just ended 5 DAYS AGO sparked serious discussions if Brummbar wasn't overbuffed as it effortlessly scored vet3 and at least 30-40 kills EVERY SINGLE GAME IT WAS BUILT, even nuking AT Guns frontally and bouncing them often.

    (removed)

  • #27
    3 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    Even with a non useless brummbar, tier 4 is still not worth teching to it in a 1v1 scenario. You are always better served by spamming tier 3. At any rate, the brummbar does it's job, its a big boom boy tank after all. I am not sure how or why one would nerf it, considering the army it is in. I would pay another 60 $ to just remove ostheer and install vcoh wehr, then i could have actual functional tiers. All of the tiers. Panthers that actually kill infantry, KCH that actually are elite late game inf, man it is so nice to pay all that cash to tech up and get rewarded. Brummbar is good, but that is all you get.

  • #28
    3 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @ARMYguy said:
    Even with a non useless brummbar, tier 4 is still not worth teching to it in a 1v1 scenario. You are always better served by spamming tier 3. At any rate, the brummbar does it's job, its a big boom boy tank after all. I am not sure how or why one would nerf it, considering the army it is in. I would pay another 60 $ to just remove ostheer and install vcoh wehr, then i could have actual functional tiers. All of the tiers. Panthers that actually kill infantry, KCH that actually are elite late game inf, man it is so nice to pay all that cash to tech up and get rewarded. Brummbar is good, but that is all you get.

    Every single top 1v1 player techs to T4 in 100% of games for brummbar alone.
    You can open twitch and verify it with your own eyes.

    Your theory has no ground.

  • #29
    3 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848
    edited June 12

    I never said the brummbar was bad man. I know its good. But it should be good. If the Sherman version is not as good, make it as good ( full disclosure i dont use that commander ever ) as any tank that is nitch and has that one job to do, should be good at it's job period. We already know the ISU is good at the job it has as far as big boom tanks. I think one other reason we see a lot more brummbars now is the tiger was nerfed, so you can't rely on it to kill infantry as fast anymore.

    I will say that i was surprised it got an armor buff last patch however. The armor shouldn't get that good til it gets skirts, IMO.

  • #30
    3 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    No, you said teching to T4 is not worth it, yet everyone in every game mode goes for it asap, because there is an close to overpowered unit there as well as reinforcement cost reduction for multiple units.

    I highly advise you to update the game to latest patch, seems you haven't played for around 18 months now as that is the only reason you would not be aware of ost T4 meta.

  • #31
    3 months ago
    ARMYguyARMYguy Posts: 848

    I def agree i see a lot of brummbars. Basically tigers got replaced by Brummbars in a lot of late games.

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