Commander Update Beta 2021 - OKW Feedback

#1
2 months ago
JohnT_REJohnT_RE CanadaPosts: 25 admin

Please post all feedback from the Commander Update beta for the OKW faction here.

«1

Comments

  • #2
    2 months ago
    yunusozgulyunusozgul Posts: 20

    Sturm Offizier
    At the present, there are so many players that use this unit to force retreat one of the enemy elite infantry squads in order to win the fight easily. The other squads near the squad that affected by this ability get a 50% accuracy bonus, but it's not a big deal since you can still use the Target Them! ability so as to lessen the bonus that the opponent squads received from the Force Retreat ability. If the nearby squads won't get any bonus, this means that anyone who builds a crowded army that consists of a Sturm Offizier and a lot of Panzerfüsiliers can win any engagement. Let's say there are 2 Shock Troops aggressing into your cover. If you force retreat one of them, the other one should take his comrade's revenge by receiving a %50 accuracy bonus. In this scenario, you can also use the Target Them! ability to lessen the bonus that the remaining squad received. However, in this patch, the opponent won't need to lessen the revenge bonus by using the Target Them! ability as there will be no bonus for the remaining squad. In summary, either the changes should be reverted or there must be a cooldown between these abilities for balance.

  • #3
    2 months ago

    It is time that the flame Panzer "Hetzer" is getting a mode where it can switch to regular rounds like the KV8
    because to this date the Hetzer is getting way to late on the Battlefield while it isn´t even able to defend itself from enemy tanks.
    Or just make an option where you can decide if you want to build a flame Hetzer or an hetzer wich shoots normally at tanks.

  • #4
    2 months ago
    TezozomoctzinTezozomoc… Posts: 48

    PAK 43
    A gun that already has a trouble of being almost impossible to destroy is getting yet another buff to itself. It is already getting spammed in team games. Maybe just make it invulnerable already. And that is at the same time when 17pndr is getting nerfed even in the specialized doctrine.
    Sturmtiger
    This unit has to have at least SOME downsides to it. With this change it will just sit on the front lines behind some thin building or hill and will just shoot through it since it's shells magically ignore obstacles that are point blank.
    Panzerfisliers
    These guys were already good. Ridiculously good for their price and timing. And are made even better.
    Command Panther
    Removed/reworked doctrinal flares. More or less good news.

  • #5
    2 months ago
    DeamonDeamon Posts: 3
    edited April 1

    @Tezozomoctzin said:
    PAK 43
    A gun that already has a trouble of being almost impossible to destroy is getting yet another buff to itself. It is already getting spammed in team games. Maybe just make it invulnerable already. And that is at the same time when 17pndr is getting nerfed even in the specialized doctrine.
    Sturmtiger
    This unit has to have at least SOME downsides to it. With this change it will just sit on the front lines behind some thin building or hill and will just shoot through it since it's shells magically ignore obstacles that are point blank.
    Panzerfisliers
    These guys were already good. Ridiculously good for their price and timing. And are made even better.
    Command Panther
    Removed/reworked doctrinal flares. More or less good news.

    The fact that the pak 43 is almost Impossible to destroy is so Bullshit. The Pak 43 is so easy to destroy you only need one grenade or an Infantry Squad to Destroy it. And before u can spam Pak´s the enemy has already like 5 tanks and 6 other Infantry Squads.

    And about the point with the Sturmtiger this tank has enough downsides: He is slow,He needs sometime to shoot,his reloading time is very long and you need to hit it perfectly because every time one squad member survives. And think now about the Churchill AVRE this tank is the same like the Sturmtiger just better the crewmattes cant die when its reloading his armor are better im just shm.

  • #6
    2 months ago
    Aiborne82Aiborne82 Posts: 22

    Why the Pak43 durability is being increased seems a little silly. It always gets killed with artillery or mortars until its dead anyway. I dont see a big reason for changing it really. The removal of bunkers for the OKW was a great change while making the flak emplacements non decrewable, keeps the faction unique. Why the Panzerfusiliers are getting a buff it beyond me. This unit is already incredibly good and giving them a buff is just going to make the meta for them skyrocket even more. I like the Sturmtiger changes. Makes it a bit more reliable but its also going to be a pain for Allies to deal with now as it no longer has a vulnerability aspect to it. I think with this change it should lockout other heavy tanks such as the King Tiger. The biggest change Im surprised didnt happen is the rakketen spam that happens every single game. This unit desperately needs a range reduction if we are going to continue to allow it to retreat. IT is easily the best AT gun in the game and the fact that it has a retreat and its range is way too powerful.

  • #7
    2 months ago

    I like the Changes to the Commanders, but i got 2 things which are on my mind for ages:

    Hetzer:
    An Option for the Hetzer to get the normal 7,5 cm gun would be great. (also a Camo ability like the jgd.pz.4 maybe?)
    Grand offensive Doctrine:
    Why cant the Tiger get a Commander? In my opinion the Tank Commander in this Doctrine is useless if you cant get it on every tank

  • #8
    2 months ago
    Ver1tasCVer1tasC Posts: 14
    edited April 4

    Feuersturm Doctrine
    280mm Rocket Barrage
    The barrage has already had an AOE penetration of 160 now and can destroy howitzers 9 of 10 times. But with the changes in beta (penetration from 0 to 60&AOE penetration to 40), it destroys howizers only 7 of 10 times according to my testing (since howizers have an armour of 70). This would make the ability less reliable actually. Maybe the penetration value should be adjusted to 70. (If 70 proves to be reliable against howitzers.)

    Special Operations
    Radio Silence
    Speed Boost now disabled in combat and all players will be warned when activated. When the infantry meets enemy even in the furthest range, it will shoot, and when it shoots, the speed boost get disabled. So what is the purpose of using such an expensive radio silence in this beta? To save some time from base to the frontline? Not to mention that its CD, cost&CP requirement also get nerfed. Together with the changes to Artillery Flares, this commander becomes fairly useless until late game when command panther arrives.

    Previously, it is a commander which only shines in right hands. Low-skill players cannot grasp the timing of radio silence, or rarely use it. Radio silence in early games and Artillery Flares really provides the commander the initiative and flexibility, which encourage agressive moves, rather than just wait for the command panther. I really hope that at least the speed boost would not be disabled.

    I would be delighted if you could take these into consideration. Thank you.

  • #9
    2 months ago
    seannybgoodeseannybgo… Posts: 342

    OKW is the strongest faction in the game easily. It's really difficult to look at this patch, see all the buffs for OKW, see all the nerfs for other factions, and say this is a balanced patch. This is just yet another laughable german bias patch from our 'community' balance team, that seem to be allergic to anything that's bad for the german experience.

    I'm +6 in OKW 2v2s right now, because fallshirms are still so laughably broken. Come on guys, this isn't balance, it's bias.

  • #10
    2 months ago
    KiethSomataw99KiethSoma… Posts: 111
    edited May 22

    For Kubelwagens, I've been insisting on improving counterplay against their raiding; mainly their vulnerability to allied AT mines. Set damage multiplier from AT mines so that they can be one shotted from a 30 munitions cost mine. Other attacks take the same amount of effort to bring this unit down.

  • #11
    2 months ago
    TezozomoctzinTezozomoc… Posts: 48
    edited April 3

    @Deamon said:
    The fact that the pak 43 is almost Impossible to destroy is so Bullshit. The Pak 43 is so easy to destroy you only need one grenade or an Infantry Squad to Destroy it. And before u can spam Pak´s the enemy has already like 5 tanks and 6 other Infantry Squads.

    And about the point with the Sturmtiger this tank has enough downsides: He is slow,He needs sometime to shoot,his reloading time is very long and you need to hit it perfectly because every time one squad member survives. And think now about the Churchill AVRE this tank is the same like the Sturmtiger just better the crewmattes cant die when its reloading his armor are better im just shm.

    There's this thing going on for PAK43, it's ignoring terrain. This thing can literally shoot through ANYTHING. And ability to neutralize it is critical giving it performance. And if you have indirect fire peppering your gun, then you can always invoke the leveling might of rocket artillery(Pazerwehrfer or Walking Stuka). You are building a gun that is beyond excellent. You have to have a weakness and a serious one at that. It would be easy to destroy with a single grenade if allies had grenades that reliably do damage. Right now you need something like a gamon or maybe soviet storms grenade; and it is still not guaranteed to do it the first time.

    As for Sturmtiger.
    This unit has enormous aoe radius, catastrophic damage, stun/suppression to everything in and beyond it's radius, 'delete infantry' ability and armor to go with it. Decrewing upon receiving damage while it is reloading is the least uncomfortable thing. Since it incentivizes a player to do it somewhere far from the frontline thus reducing frequency of shots. And if you get shot by kat while you are reloading 5 meters from the engagement that is not the unit's fault.
    AVRE has small in comparison blast, turns slower and turret actually makes it harder to aim and switch targets, projectile flies slower, needs tight groups to ensure wipes and can at best stun or seriously damage only one armored target.
    And on top of that whatever axis has against armored targets is way better and more reliable in pen than that what allies have. So levels of danger between poking with a Sturmtiger vs poking with AVER are completely different.

  • #12
    2 months ago
    TallbarretTallbarret Posts: 1

    I agree with earlier points that the Hetzer should get the ability to change to normal rounds, at the moment this unit just feels very underwhelming and not worth getting out,

  • #13
    2 months ago
    seannybgoodeseannybgo… Posts: 342

    @Tezozomoctzin said:

    @Deamon said:
    The fact that the pak 43 is almost Impossible to destroy is so Bullshit. The Pak 43 is so easy to destroy you only need one grenade or an Infantry Squad to Destroy it. And before u can spam Pak´s the enemy has already like 5 tanks and 6 other Infantry Squads.

    And about the point with the Sturmtiger this tank has enough downsides: He is slow,He needs sometime to shoot,his reloading time is very long and you need to hit it perfectly because every time one squad member survives. And think now about the Churchill AVRE this tank is the same like the Sturmtiger just better the crewmattes cant die when its reloading his armor are better im just shm.

    There's this thing going on for PAK43, it's ignoring terrain. This thing can literally shoot through ANYTHING. And ability to neutralize it is critical giving it performance. And if you have indirect fire peppering your gun, then you can always invoke the leveling might of rocket artillery(Pazerwehrfer or Walking Stuka). You are building a gun that is beyond excellent. You have to have a weakness and a serious one at that. It would be easy to destroy with a single grenade if allies had grenades that reliably do damage. Right now you need something like a gamon or maybe soviet storms grenade; and it is still not guaranteed to do it the first time.

    As for Sturmtiger.
    This unit has enormous aoe radius, catastrophic damage, stun/suppression to everything in and beyond it's radius, 'delete infantry' ability and armor to go with it. Decrewing upon receiving damage while it is reloading is the least uncomfortable thing. Since it incentivizes a player to do it somewhere far from the frontline thus reducing frequency of shots. And if you get shot by kat while you are reloading 5 meters from the engagement that is not the unit's fault.
    AVRE has small in comparison blast, turns slower and turret actually makes it harder to aim and switch targets, projectile flies slower, needs tight groups to ensure wipes and can at best stun or seriously damage only one armored target.
    And on top of that whatever axis has against armored targets is way better and more reliable in pen than that what allies have. So levels of danger between poking with a Sturmtiger vs poking with AVER are completely different.

    All of this. The Sturmtiger is a vastly superior unit to the AVRE in every respect, so unless the AVRE is getting mirrored to the sturmtiger, then the comparisons are totally red herrings. These are excuses to give OKW yet another unneeded buff.

  • #14
    2 months ago
    DeamonDeamon Posts: 3

    @Tezozomoctzin said:

    @Deamon said:
    The fact that the pak 43 is almost Impossible to destroy is so Bullshit. The Pak 43 is so easy to destroy you only need one grenade or an Infantry Squad to Destroy it. And before u can spam Pak´s the enemy has already like 5 tanks and 6 other Infantry Squads.

    And about the point with the Sturmtiger this tank has enough downsides: He is slow,He needs sometime to shoot,his reloading time is very long and you need to hit it perfectly because every time one squad member survives. And think now about the Churchill AVRE this tank is the same like the Sturmtiger just better the crewmattes cant die when its reloading his armor are better im just shm.

    There's this thing going on for PAK43, it's ignoring terrain. This thing can literally shoot through ANYTHING. And ability to neutralize it is critical giving it performance. And if you have indirect fire peppering your gun, then you can always invoke the leveling might of rocket artillery(Pazerwehrfer or Walking Stuka). You are building a gun that is beyond excellent. You have to have a weakness and a serious one at that. It would be easy to destroy with a single grenade if allies had grenades that reliably do damage. Right now you need something like a gamon or maybe soviet storms grenade; and it is still not guaranteed to do it the first time.

    As for Sturmtiger.
    This unit has enormous aoe radius, catastrophic damage, stun/suppression to everything in and beyond it's radius, 'delete infantry' ability and armor to go with it. Decrewing upon receiving damage while it is reloading is the least uncomfortable thing. Since it incentivizes a player to do it somewhere far from the frontline thus reducing frequency of shots. And if you get shot by kat while you are reloading 5 meters from the engagement that is not the unit's fault.
    AVRE has small in comparison blast, turns slower and turret actually makes it harder to aim and switch targets, projectile flies slower, needs tight groups to ensure wipes and can at best stun or seriously damage only one armored target.
    And on top of that whatever axis has against armored targets is way better and more reliable in pen than that what allies have. So levels of danger between poking with a Sturmtiger vs poking with AVER are completely different.

    I don´t know if were in the same game because u dont need any Special Infantary. Every grenade is better then the german every time my lvl 5 or 3 Volks/Grenadier squad gets one hit every time. And when you throw a grenade at some allied troops they dont even lose a man in the squad.
    Sturmtiger/chruchill AVRE. In my Opinion they should be like the same. But you cant say that the Sturm has a big AOE radius because im seing every time when im playing with this shit that soldiers in a squad survives and they are in the "delete" AOE radius. And than Prove me please why the Sturm tiger and the Pak is strong. Because i had so often that the Pak43 bounces or miss on a Sherman.

  • #15
    2 months ago
    DeamonDeamon Posts: 3

    @seannybgoode said:
    OKW is the strongest faction in the game easily. It's really difficult to look at this patch, see all the buffs for OKW, see all the nerfs for other factions, and say this is a balanced patch. This is just yet another laughable german bias patch from our 'community' balance team, that seem to be allergic to anything that's bad for the german experience.

    I'm +6 in OKW 2v2s right now, because fallshirms are still so laughably broken. Come on guys, this isn't balance, it's bias.

    Why Should they be broken? Are still better than the German because: 1. You can Equip them with 2 Diffrent types of weapon: Thompson´s and 2 MG, 2. Both of the upgrades gives the Airborne troops a Special ability and they are really Strong. 3. you can Equip them with the weapons without being in your terretories. 4. They are Overall more Soldiers in the squads than in the germans. and the last thing is that with the Bazooka that they use it better than "normal" Infantary.

  • #16
    2 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,748
    edited April 5

    OKW

    105mm Artillery Barrage

    Suggestions:

    280mm Rocket Barrage

    Suggestions:
    Increase penetration 70+, 60 can still deflect on static emplacements and the majority of arty abilities have much higher penetration

    Buildable 20mm Flak Emplacement

    Suggestions:
    Allow the unit to gain experience

    Command Panther

    Suggestions:
    Lower price of flares, they are available to Soviet mortars and infatry earlier and much cheaper.

    Command Tiger

    Suggestions:
    Either balance the unit a Command Tank with lower stat or scrap the Command aspect and balance a heavy tank

    Early Warning Flare Traps

    Suggestions:
    allow ability to be used on enemy/neutral sectors

    Emergency Repairs

    Suggestions:

    For the Fatherland

    Suggestions:

    Heavy Fortification and Field Defenses

    Suggestions:

    Incendiary Munitions for Le.IG

    Suggestions:
    merge the ability with flame throwers
    increase CD
    decrease scatter the ability can easily completely miss
    reduce the friendly damage can cause crew to die if it hit shot blockers

    Jagdtiger

    Suggestions:
    Lower XP

    King Tiger

    Suggestions:

    Le.FH 105mm

    Suggestions:
    Replace the vet 5 ability with something actually useful. Like the ability slowly respawn crew or slowly heal

    Opel Blitz

    Suggestions:
    Allow the unit to transport medical kit and uncrewed support weapons

    Pak 43

    Suggestions:

    Panzerfusiliers

    Suggestions:
    Reduce cost and lower number of G43 to 2. Or rebalance the unit as a support unit.

    Radio Silence

    Suggestions:

    Sturm Offizier

    Suggestions:
    lower XP value of the unit
    add vet bonus the lower mu for abilities

    Sturmpioneer Flamethrower

    Suggestions:
    Replace with Flamer engineer unit with stats similar to VG , that can upgrade with flamer.
    Unit can upgrade with minesweeper build sandbag and normal wire.
    Low Pop so that can offer support to the over burden SP

    Sturmtiger

    Suggestions:
    Change the Squad wipe potential to utility
    Increase hull mg damage
    lower damage of grenades possibly change them to always on
    hard cap model kill
    add critical to vehicles/infantries (injured gunner/driver..)
    Allow world piercing

    Valiant Assault

    Suggestions:
    Move Falls reinforcement to this ability, (lock behind tech if necessary)

    Zeroing Artillery

    Suggestions:
    as a primarily defensive ability lower power and cost

  • #17
    2 months ago
    InsomniaInsomnia Posts: 1

    Emergency repairs: please don't make them slower, that is not the problem...instead I would suggest to make them only usable when there is a critical on that vehicle so you can't just spam this ability but retain its unique purposes...the problem is not the speed but that you can use it without an emergency^^

  • #18
    2 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,748
    edited April 8

    221/223

    221 would be more useful as counter to micro light something okw suffer from while 223 has too high fuel cost/pop compared to the trucks

    Suggestions:
    Redesign the 221 and 223
    Make the 221 a counter to allied micro light UC/M3 flamer and Sniper hunter
    Increasing penetration and armor but lower DPS and give bonus vs Sniper

    Either
    move 223 so scavenger with no fuel cost and low pop to work dedicated resources vehicle
    or
    scarp the resources vehicle and make a commander vehicle with a timed aura giving "network type bonus" to armor

    Airborne Assault

    The ability is not that great
    Suggestions:
    Either toned making cheaper and earlier available or add something to make more unique.

    For instance:
    "hold the line design" CP down 7-8 cost to 120-150 now target a sector and planes arrive similar to hold the line
    or
    Duration increased and now animatron parachutist similar to the one used in "victory strike" attack the sector.

    Assault Artillery

    The ability is too strong for a commander with JT
    Suggestions:
    Replace the artillery with light mortar and lower Price to 120-150 and CP to 7-8

    Assault Package

    Suggestions:
    remove flamer
    replace smoke grenade with light smoke grenade available to commandos (received accuracy instead of vision blocker)

    Breakthrough Tactics

    Suggestions:

    Early Warning Systems

    Suggestions:
    Replace mini map info of trucks with a timed ability, give more sight to setup trucks possibly allow the to fire flare.

    Redesign goliaths to be used vs structures instead of squad wiping machines.
    Hard cap number of kills while reducing cost and allowing only one to be built at time

    Fallschirmjaeger

    Suggestions:
    Increase entities to 5
    lower DPS and number of FG42
    Allow 2 firing mode for FG42 assault rifle and high accuracy.
    Abilities could be toggle or one could be default the other an ability

    Flakpanzer Ostwind

    Suggestions:
    possibly allow to the unit to fire shot that do less damage but suppress maybe as vet 1 ability

    Flammpanzer Hetzer

    Suggestions:
    increase rear armor
    increase base acceleration rotation and lower the vet bonuses.

    HEAT Shells

    These round also increase AI due to higher damage

    Suggestions:
    Make passive ability with a simple increase in penetration

    Heavy Fortifications + Field Defences (merged)

    Suggestions:
    Tank traps now provide yellow cover
    need more time to built
    can be dismntale
    are more resistant to ballistic weapons

    Infiltration Grenades

    Suggestions:

    IR STG44

    Special OP fit the Operation Greif and should have an infiltration unit

    Suggestions:
    Replace the upgrade with a 5 entity infiltration unit using ober models (or even using US uniform) armed with 5 elite M1 carbines
    Unit can upgrade with toned IR ST44

    Jaeger Light Infantry Squad

    Suggestions:
    Redesign as support unit
    Lower pop
    Critical kill now a timed ability
    Extra accuracy vs snipers

    Opel Blitz

    Suggestions:
    Replace heal with passenger heal
    allow to load and transport medic kits/uncrewed support weapons
    lower fuel cost

    Panzer Commander

    Suggestions:
    replace the upgrade with toggle that now allow to change form MG to officer that can survey the field.
    Replace the barrage by a less powerful mortar barrage or a plane attack

    Sector Assault

    Suggestions:

    Thorough Salvage

    Suggestions:

    Stuka Smoke Bombs

    Suggestions:
    Have 2 version of the ability one for luftwaffer commander providing vision and one for the rest with no vision.

  • #19
    2 months ago
    GoforGiantsV3GoforGian… Posts: 30
    edited April 9

    Heavy Fortifications + Field Defences (merged)

    Suggestions:
    Tank traps now provide yellow cover
    need more time to built
    can be dismntale
    are more resistant to ballistic weapons

    It's an another Trap For Killing USF.
    OKW's Tank Trap and RE's Tank trap uses same data. So if it truly Happens. USF's Heavy Cover without commander is totally Gone.

    Volks and Sturmpioneers can fight easier against Rifles and REs with Tank Trap cover.
    at now. Tank Trap is Heavy Cover so Cannot Easily Dive but If it become Light Cover. Earlytime OKW's Superiority will become Too Big. and also Kubelwagen can Deal more damage to REs and Rifles at Point Flags.

  • #20
    2 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,748
    edited April 9

    Breakthrough Doctrine should have a breakthrough vehicles like ST increasing synergy with a toned down Assault artillery and AT PF.

    Breakthrough Doctrine

    Panzerfusiliers
    Breakthrough Tactics
    Sturm Offizier
    Assault Artillery
    Jagdtiger---> SturmTiger

    Elite Armor Doctrine should have access to superior AT unit like JT but then a resources vehicles need to move out to a more appropriate commander like Scavenger with a theme of extra resources.

    Elite Armor Doctrine

    221/223--->Opel Blitz
    Emergency Repairs
    HEAT Shells
    Panzer Commander
    Sturmtiger--->Jagdtiger

    Feuersturm Doctrine should have access to an easier to use flamer unit that can take some of burden of SP. In addition the incendiary round should be available even if one goes T2 and should be be able to be used behind shot blocker so a mortar is better solution.

    Feuersturm Doctrine

    Flammpanzer Hetzer
    Assault Package--->Flamer pioneer (5 men K98 squad able to equip flamer and minesweeper)
    Incendiary Munitions---> The g43 mortar from Ostheer urban commander with incendiary rounds
    Opel Blitz---> Recoup losses or For The Fatherland
    Stuka Rocket Barrage

    Fortifications Doctrine

    Heavy Fortifications + Field Defences (merged)
    For The Fatherland
    Pak 43
    LeFH 18
    Zeroing Artillery

    Overwatch Doctrine could use a recon vehicles like the 221 as counter to lights and snipers. 223 could become available as "commander aura" vehicles.

    Overwatch Doctrine

    Jaeger Light Infantry Squad
    Early Warning Systems
    For The Fatherland--->221 (or 221/223 with 223 as recon/aura vehicle)
    LeFH 18
    Sector Assault

    Grand Offensive Doctrine should not give access to both a "superior" mainline and Commander Tiger to avoid blobbing.
    MP-40 VG as separate unit fit both the theme and have limited use reducing the blobing. Panzer commander does not have good synergy since it not available to Tiger.

    Grand Offensive Doctrine

    Panzerfusiliers--->Assault VG (The upgrade MP-40 VG with light smoke grenades )
    Stuka Smoke Bombs
    IR STG44
    Panzer Commander---> Light artillery barrage (similar to ostheer ability)
    Command Tiger

    Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine a tribute to COH1 that will also allow to actually build defensive structures something the overburden SP can not really do. Also ostwind more fitting in this commander

    Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine

    Heavy Fortifications + Field Defences (merged)--->Luftwaffe ground forces (Basically VG engineer able to build 2cm AA, tank traps, wire, repair and equip minesweeper )
    Stuka Smoke Bombs
    Fallschirmjaeger
    Valiant Assault---> merged with toned down Airborne Assault
    Airborne Assault--->Ostwind

    Scavenge Doctrine a resources vehicle is much better suited for this commander with more synergy with 105 barrage.
    One can experiment with Green T-34/76

    Scavenge Doctrine

    Flakpanzer Ostwind--->green T-34/76 (available to Red banner soviet commander)
    Thorough Salvage--->merged with a resources vehicle like 223 or Opel truck or a vehicle that can "shipon" enemy resources
    Jaeger Light Infantry Squad
    Infiltration Grenades
    105mm Howitzer Barrage

    Special Operations is commander where an infiltration unit fit the theme best. One could even merge the infiltration grenades to free up an extra slot.

    Special Operations

    Radio Silence
    Infiltration Grenades
    IR STG44 --->infiltration obers
    Sturm Offizier
    Command Panther

  • #21
    2 months ago
    StrategosStrategos Posts: 6

    I think it's important that it is the public what kind of player you are, i.e. team games or 1v1, whether you play a lot or not. Otherwise one would not recognize the writer's motives. To me, I haven't actively played 1v1 for a good 1 year. But follow the tournaments and often watch 1v1 games in spectator mode, I know the current metas. In my day I was top 100 with all factions. I still play team games with friends from time to time (4v4) so ​​we're around the top 50. In addition, one should express my thanks to the people from the community who update, patch and balance the game. Since they are not paid for it and they sacrifice free time for it, one should not forget that. Hope my English is not too bad

    Fortifications
    Looks nice. Good old defense doc.

    Special Operations
    This gives the doctrine a little more early game power.

    Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine
    With the merging of the Heavy Fortification and Field Defenses, the doctrine gets an additional strengthening. To make it playable, however, you should replace the smoke drop with the ostwind. Because you like to tech up quickly with a paratrooper so that you can spend the other FG 42. This combines wonderfully with the ostwind that you can build in the Panzer Hq. However, so that you still have a recon, you could still fly a reconnaissance aircraft for each front sector in Valiant Assault (same as with Assault) at an extra charge for the Muntion, of course.

    Scavenge Doctrine
    The Thorough Salvage Ability is completely useless as it is now I would replace it with a 221 or an Opel Blitz (Wehrmacht).

    105mm Artillery Barrage
    This change was long overdue.

    280mm Rocket Barrage
    Nice change.

    Buildable 20mm Flak Emplacement
    This change was long overdue.

    Command Panther
    Good change.

    Command Tiger
    Bring in line with other heavy tanks

    Early Warning Flare Traps
    Nice to see.

    Emergency Repairs
    Seems logical.

    For the Fatherland
    Good change makes the skill useful.

    Heavy Fortification and Field Defenses
    Good change makes 2 more doctrines playable.

    Incendiary Munitions for Le.IG
    Bring in line with other abilitys.

    Jagdtiger
    Yeah why not.

    King Tiger
    Bring in Line with other mounted mgs.

    Le.FH 105mm
    Looks good.

    Pak 43
    Yeah why not.

    Panzerfusiliers
    Looks good.

    Radio Silence
    The changes look good. But for what you get it could be a bit cheaper.

    Sturm Offizier
    Yeah why not.

    Sturmpioneer Flamethrower
    This change was long overdue.

    Sturmtiger
    This change was long overdue.

    Valiant Assault
    Look at the Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine.

    Zeroing Artillery
    Looks nice.

    Panzer Commander
    The 105 howitzers offmap from the Panzercomander is strong, so strong that the Commander is no longer available on the Tiger. So that you can balance it better and you have the opportunity to spend the commander on all tanks again, you should weaken the barrage to a light infantry gun Barrage (east), the pak player has to react, the pak is decrewed but not destroyed. This gives the Okw player the option to choose between Mg (Inf. Damage) or Panzer commander (better accuracy and more Vet).

    Volks MP40
    Due to the change in ppsh recruits (high damage output). I would buff the Volks Mp40 a bit so that they are not too weak.

  • #22
    2 months ago
    TezozomoctzinTezozomoc… Posts: 48

    @Deamon said:

    @seannybgoode said:
    OKW is the strongest faction in the game easily. It's really difficult to look at this patch, see all the buffs for OKW, see all the nerfs for other factions, and say this is a balanced patch. This is just yet another laughable german bias patch from our 'community' balance team, that seem to be allergic to anything that's bad for the german experience.

    I'm +6 in OKW 2v2s right now, because fallshirms are still so laughably broken. Come on guys, this isn't balance, it's bias.

    Why Should they be broken? Are still better than the German because: 1. You can Equip them with 2 Diffrent types of weapon: Thompson´s and 2 MG, 2. Both of the upgrades gives the Airborne troops a Special ability and they are really Strong. 3. you can Equip them with the weapons without being in your terretories. 4. They are Overall more Soldiers in the squads than in the germans. and the last thing is that with the Bazooka that they use it better than "normal" Infantary.

    I suppose you talk about paratroopers.
    1. Extreme close range weapon and long range ONLY weapon. Both cost quite a significant sum. Falshims have FG42 that kills at ANY distance, ANY infantry unit.
    2. Special abilities that have severe downsides or are usable only under special conditions.
    3. The only special mechanics for the unit. But given the above not a lot of benefits from it.
    4. 6-man squad that derps and condenses, making it easy to wipe via grenade or lucky tank shot. Flashims do rarely do that. And 'better' bazookas are not much of a level since it's better than trash.

  • #23
    2 months ago
    Ver1tasCVer1tasC Posts: 14
    edited April 20
    > @Ver1tasC said:
    > Feuersturm Doctrine
    > 280mm Rocket Barrage
    > The barrage has already had an AOE penetration of 160 now and can destroy howitzers 9 of 10 times. But with the changes in beta (penetration from 0 to 60&AOE penetration to 40), it destroys howizers only 7 of 10 times according to my testing (since howizers have an armour of 70). This would make the ability less reliable actually. Maybe the penetration value should be adjusted to 70. (If 70 proves to be reliable against howitzers.)
    >

    So still no fix for this ability? Please just test it for yourself.

    Apr. 20 Edit: Now they fixed it! Thank you so much!
  • #24
    2 months ago

    SPECIAL OPERATIONS DOCTRINE; CREEPING FLARE, HIDDEN STURM

    Notes Of Feedback Regarding Special Operation Changes pre / post Commander Beta change (4/21 update)

    • FLARE / OFFICER

    The current usage and tactics deployed with the Flare ability fit more synergistic with the gameplay offered at higher level of play with Special Operations; allowing for a more versatile yet unconventional aid in stealthy gurrellia warfare tactics - An intimation method for another incoming ambush on an enemy blob pushing up to the point, or a clever diversion to redirect enemy focus to a point on the map they would suspect an Enemy is about to push, or as a simple and effective tool of information for yourself and ally strikes.

    While there would be better upgrades to this ability slot (Opel Blitz; Stuka Smoke Drop) - The Tactical Flare still manages to fulfill and excel in a very niche role, while still being inline and accessible to the commander as a whole.

    With the CHANGE and ADDITION of the Sturm Officer - we not only see a change in how the commanders abilities are used as a whole, but the direct and fundamentals of how the commander plays entirely. Shifting focus away from Clever and Decisive Gurrellia Warfare, to a stronger push on planning Strong Quick Offensives (something that other commanders already do, and better (Breakthrough, Elite Armored, Ground Forces - Hell, we already have GRAND OFFENSIVE). With the addition to the Tiger Command Tank (which, is already a questionable choice from the get-go), You are looking at a stack of Boosted Obers with Infra44s, and two Boosted Tigers; granting way too much direct overwhelming firepower to a doctrine based around Stealth gameplay. Even with the nerfing of Radio Silence, this will still be way too much - and will only be a direct upgrade to the aforementioned Offensive Commanders, now that they can essentially still hide infantry.

    **TL;DR - Extremely Negative. **

    • RADIO SILENCE / HOW I STOPPED WORRYING AND LEARNED TO LOVE THE FOG OF WAR

    There is an old saying - 'Real Gs move in Silence like Lasagna'; Sun Tzu did I believe.

    The Radio Silence Nerf brings us similar drastic gameplay changes like the Sturm Officer - again treating Stealth as something to be 'Earned' and 'An Option' while still offering at least some forms of compromise if this was the way Relic wanted to approach their concerns about Counterplay (which most Ally factions already do - having stronger early game units, period - not to mention British/Russian MGs out the gate as well, which already significantly limits infantry movement early game if used properly.)

    Speed Boost being an out of Combat option is the first example of this;

    While the need to balance out the massive 'Hit and Run' pressure that Special Operations has in its early game especially (which is already a counter to the previous problem, thus making this a counter of a counter almost) - It does effectively strip that pressure away; While the speed boost out of combat is a nice compromise, it doesn't give any sort of threatening combat advantage that could help win certain engagements that would normally result in a loss when used correctly ( one pioneer squad vs two or three conscripts / two riflemen / etc.) The only advantage that the Speed Boost out of combat brings is that I am able to run away faster after getting suppressed; or to deploy units BACK into the field, at which point what is even the point of using radio silence if they are not even in a combat area?

    The Increased Cooldown + Duration + Cost must all come as one complete Item - The Extra 15 seconds of time Gained from this to me is not worth the extra 30 Mutitions and 30 Seconds of Wait that come with it; It is Get In - Get Out, again this in conjunction with the previous nerf to combat boosts in Radio Silence make it feel like something that you can get as a treat, every so often, instead of an essential tool to master to become proficient with a less 'grand offensive' type commander. This is all of course before mentioning the new Command Point requirement shifting from 0 to 2, which on its own automatically strips Special Operations of any unique out of the box options for gameplay and approach - you are effectively no different than most commands at their most basic. (No Panzerfullers = 0 CP, No SDKFZ 221 = 0 CP, Even Overwatch and Salvage get perks at 0 CP, and Jagers at 1!)

    And Alerting other Players before the Ability comes out? While again - I understand the need to offer specific measures of counterplay to what is honestly one of the more Unique abilities in the game; The simple matter of fact that Radio Silence is not an automatic engagement winner is enough of its own testament - It is not a direct upperhand in any capacity unless you are Either; Skilled enough with Map Knowledge and Tactics to micro Infantry units around certain strategic points - OR facing off against someone who has worse situational awareness. More often than not you will be met with insurmountable odds if you lean and rely on it too much, neglecting to balance out that natural element of 'Stealth' and 'Offensive' - between either the Ally MG spam, Brits Bofors and Armor - even in most Infantry engagements where you are simply outnumbered, and outgunned. The element of the 'SURPRISE' is lost when you immediately let everyone know what is about to happen - despite not knowing when and where still, it will be enough to put people onto watching any angle once they start wising up to it, and as more players adapt to the calling card. Whereas before effective 'Special Operations' counterplay came from knowing the Commanders specific weaknesses and exploiting them in combat.

    TL;DR Extremely Negative - More effective changes on the fundamentals of the Commander which effects its Unique style of play, bringing it more up toe to toe with Offensive style commanders. Treating Stealth as a separate 'Boost' as its own on top of buffed special units, and less as a tactical tool to manipulate engagements.

  • #25
    2 months ago
    Ver1tasCVer1tasC Posts: 14
    edited April 13

    @OFTHESUNOFTHESUN said:
    The only advantage that the Speed Boost out of combat brings is that I am able to run away faster after getting suppressed; or to deploy units BACK into the field, at which point what is even the point of using radio silence if they are not even in a combat area?

    The Increased Cooldown + Duration + Cost must all come as one complete Item - The Extra 15 seconds of time Gained from this to me is not worth the extra 30 Mutitions and 30 Seconds of Wait that come with it;

    Such a well-written masterpiece. But I would like to point out some details that you were mistaken about that actually make the commander worse than what you have expected.

    1. They did not even give extra 15 seconds of time. It is indeed 'Duration to 45 from 60' (55 now in Ver. 1.1 so -5 in total).
    2. Being suppressed already brings units into 'combat state', so radio silence will not let units run away faster after getting suppressed.
  • #26
    1 month ago
    Ver1tasCVer1tasC Posts: 14

    Firstly, thank you for the fix on 280mm Rocket Barrage.

    Radio Silence

    Duration from 40 to 55

    The question is not the duration. It is the cost. If the changes in beta were implemented, this commander would require even more munitions. If I wanted to utilize the Sturm Offizier effectively, I had to use his abilities very often, which costs munitions. So where could I find more munitions to use Radio Silence at a 70 cost?

    My suggestion: (All compared to the live build)
    Duration from 60 to 45
    Cost from 40 to 55

  • #27
    1 month ago
    yunusozgulyunusozgul Posts: 20

    Command Tiger
    The Tiger tank that is available for the Grand Offensive Doctrine commander has never been an attractive option since the day it was released due to some nonsense reasons. Firstly, you can't upgrade this vehicle with the Panzer Commander upgrade while you have the opportunity to dispatch Königstiger, which is a better option than the Tiger tank, and take the advantage of the benefits of the Panzer Commander upgrade. Secondly, the Command Tiger ability that you can use to strenghten the nearby vehicles with various buffs is temporary and has a short duration. Its is 15 Munitions and it lasts for just 30 seconds. Instead, the effect on the nearby vehicles should be permanent just like the one that the Panther Command Tank possesses.

  • #28
    1 month ago
    Arcturus64Arcturus64 Posts: 10

    PZFusilliers can't be reinforced for some reason, says "You don't have enough ressources" despite not showing any manpower cost just population.

  • #29
    1 month ago

    Overall Commander Changes

    -For the Fatherland: Change from 2 CP to 4 CP;
    This global infantry boost is too powerful to arrive that early.

    -Infrared StG44 Package: Change from 3 CP to 4 CP;
    If a player were to have Obers by 3CP their oppressive lead should not be further cemented with StG 44 Obers.

    OKW Commander Changes

    Breakthrough Doctrine
    -Breakthrough Tactics: Change from 0 CP to 4 CP;
    A powerful ability that needs a cap on its early game effectiveness.

    -Assault Artillery: Change cost from 200 to 225 ammo;
    Drops strong shells in a large area and then dumps a huge amount of smoke. In line with Railway Artillery change.

    Feuersturm Doctrine
    -280mm Rocket Barrage: Change from 9 CP to 10 CP;
    This ability should be received slightly later in response to the changes that make this ability reliably destroy any support weapon.

    -Move Incendiary Munitions into the Assault Package ability;
    Cleans up the 0 CP abilities and makes room for Valiant Assault.

    -In the place of Incendiary Munitions insert Valiant Assault.
    Makes this commander a more attractive pick and creates a 2nd commander with Valiant Assault. Similar to how For the Fatherland was made available to 2 commanders. This change makes Feuersturm comparable to German Infantry Doctrine which has storm troopers, Assault and Hold, and a powerful off map strike.

    Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine
    -Airborne Assault: Change costs from 200 to 225 ammo, change description from "attacks vehicles only" to "strafes centrally targeted infantry and attacks vehicles";
    Brings cost in line with Stuka Close Air Support and corrects a misleading ability description.

    Overwatch Doctrine
    -Sector Assault: Remove from description that the ability includes recon.
    This ability does not recon first as stated in the ability description. Sector Assault requires sight from some other source for any of the planes to attack.

    Scavenge Doctrine
    -105mm Howitzer Barrage: Change cost from 180 to 200 ammo, change from 9 CP to 10 CP;
    Even with the changes made to this ability, it is too powerful at its current cost and CP.

    Special Operations Doctrine
    -Radio Silence: Change cost from 70 to 40 ammo, duration from 55 to 60, cool down from 120 to 150;
    Cost is way too high for a 0 CP ability. Now that the infantry speed boost only works out of combat, this ability is only useful as a means of quickly getting troops around long flank paths while avoiding combat and the mini map.

    OKW Unit Changes

    -SdKfz 221 Scout Car: Increase its damage to snipers by 20%;
    Players typically do not go Kübelwagen when building a 221 Scout Car, nor does this doc have JLI or PZF G43 to hunt snipers.

    -Sturmtiger: Add effect for Sturmtiger when reloading to receive 20% more damage from all sources, stacks with soviet ability Mark Vehicle;
    Now that the abandoned crew effect is removed from the Sturmtiger, the player should still feel pressured to retreat when reloading due to the exposed crew.

    -LeFH 18 Artillery: Direct Fire moved to vet 2, ability only targets vehicles, extend range by 20, damage from 250 to 400, all listed changes would apply to Ostheer variant as well;
    A rarely seen ability that should be moved from vet 5 to vet 2 and deserves more action. Change of 400 damage so LeFH 18 can one shot all light vehicles and pressure mediums that are stationary within the line of sight.

    -Panzerfusilers: Change flare cost from 35 to 30, swap vet 4 and vet 5 effects (vet 4 becomes sprint, vet 5 becomes 15% more capture rate);
    Flare durations is only 30 seconds and should be 30 ammo to match Jaeger Command Squad flare which is also 30 ammo and lasts for 30 seconds.

    -Panzer 2 Ausf. L Luchs: Move vet 5 ability Suppressive Fire into the Vet 3 effects, new vet 5 effects become +5 additional attack range and +15% more penetration;
    It is difficult to get a vet 5 Panzer 2 and the Suppressive Fire ability is needed sooner. Also, if the Panzer 2 were to become abandoned then captured, the new owner regardless of faction could obtain the Suppressive Fire ability.

    -Panther Command Tank: Change flare cost from 50 to 40 ammo, increase flare cool down;
    Brings flare cost in line with similar flare abilities. Increased cool down to prevent constant sight.

    OKW Bugs

    Binding Overlap:
    On classic hotkeys the Panther Command Tank has the "F" key assigned to both Coordinated Fire and Flare abilities.

    Thank you for reading and taking these changes into consideration.

  • #30
    1 month ago
    Akuma_chan_senseiAkuma_cha… Posts: 19

    Just a typo on description/tooltip: "Timed ability. Nearby Tehicles are more difficult to hit, fire more accurately and fire faster."

  • #31
    1 month ago
    Akuma_chan_senseiAkuma_cha… Posts: 19

    I found a bug with the Panzerfüsiliers Model 24 grenade ability: If you are controlling multiple Panzerfüsilier squads and use the Model 24 grenade ability just once, the entire selected group of squads of Panzerfüsiliers will all throw a Model 24 grenade each instead of just the nearest squad throwing a single grenade e.g. if you have three selected Panzerfüsilier squads and then use the Model 24 ability once, all three squads will throw a single grenade each instead of just the nearest squad to the target area throwing a single grenade.

    Note: I haven't noticed anything like this for other OKW infantry, such as Volks, Obers, Falls. Haven't tried Light Jaeger yet again, but will come back here if I see more bugs.

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