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John_RE

John_RE

13 days ago Apr 18,2024, 16:39:14 PM

[Preview] 1.6.5 Balance Changes

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The 1.6.5 PC patch following our Coral Viper update will be releasing in the first week of May, and our team wants to give you a preview of the planned multiplayer balance changes so we can get your early feedback. Overall, we’ve found that the win rates are tightening up with the last round of balance changes (though win rates are only one of several factors we consider in our decision making). Our focus with this update is to buff the lesser used Battlegroup choices to create a wider variety of effective strategic paths. 


We did a similar preview with our last hot fix and were blown away by the quality of feedback you provided! Just like last time, please review the changes below and let us know what you think. Some feedback we may be able to address before the release of 1.6.5, and everything else we’ll take into consideration for the future.  


Anything else you feel the power level is too low on? Other critical multiplayer balance issues you would like us to consider? Take a look below and please let us know! 


- The CoH3 Design Team 

 

Planned Changes 

 

General Changes 

  

Healing and Camouflage 

Forward healing and camouflage are powerful tools that were able to re-activate too quickly once the unit had left combat. We are increasing the out of combat duration to make it more difficult to receive healing immediately after encountering the enemy and harder for units to re-camouflage after engagements.  

  • Time before they can be retriggered increased from 6 seconds to 10 seconds 

  • Healing now only happens when the entire squad is out of combat 

 

Airborne and Breakthrough Smoke Runs 

  • Projectile Speed increased from 0 to 15 

  • Recharge times standardized to 60 seconds 

 

BL 5.5-inch Howitzer, Obice 210, and M2A1 105mm Howitzer 

Howitzer emplacements saw minimal use due to their low durability, particularly in artillery duels against mobile artillery. We are partially reverting the health nerf to allow emplaced howitzers to better survive counter-barrage fire from on-map artillery and give players more time to react if they are being raided. 

  • Health increased from 480 to 600 


US Forces

 

Rearm and Retrofit 

Because of the high barrier to entry that had the opportunity cost of delaying light vehicles, this upgrade was generally purchased in late-game scenarios where resources were less of a concern. To allow for easier integration with light vehicle builds, we are reducing the cost of this upgrade. 

  • Rearm and Refit cost reduced from 150 manpower and 30 fuel to 125 manpower and 20 fuel


Engineer Squad 

The US Forces tend to struggle more against defenses and garrisons than other factions as they start with the Scout Squad rather than a unit with access to flamethrowers. While we want to keep this asymmetry, we do want standard Engineers to be a viable option. To facilitate this change, we are making Engineers more accessible by reducing their cost and giving them Satchel Charges as part of their kit, granting the US more tools to demolish early garrisons, defenses, and obstacles. 

  • Manpower cost reduced from 200 to 180; does not affect Assault Engineer squads. 

  • Reinforce time reduced from 6 to 3.75; matches Assault Engineers 

  • Now have access to Satchel Charges; costs 45 munitions per use. 


Riflemen Pour it On ‘Em  

  • Now properly cancels on retreat like other timed-based abilities 


Designate Assault Position 

Designate Assault Position is an under-utilized ability that we want to be a viable option against forward retreat and healing. To emphasize the ability’s role in supporting infantry pushes, we are granting suppression resistance to all units affected. 

  • Now provides +50% suppression resistance in addition to current bonuses 


Spec Ops Mark Vehicle 

We are boosting the duration of Mark Target to give the player more time to focus down enemy units that are affected by this ability. The plane is also receiving a significant health increase as it was too easy to shoot down. 

  • Duration increased from 35 to 45 

  • Plane health increased from 1000 to 2000 

  • Recharge time increased from 30 to 60 seconds 

 

Free Fire Drills 

Free Fire Drills did not offer enough reward to the player when they built their howitzers closer to the front-line where they could be attacked by the enemy if the line was pushed. We are significantly increasing the rate of fire to encourage putting the howitzer closer to the front-line when this Battlegroup ability is selected.  

  • Command Point cost reduced from 3 to 2 

  • Reload speed decreased from 15 to 10 seconds 

  • Ready-aim time reduced from 2 to 1 

 

Ammunition Storage 

Ammunition Storage has languished due to a combination of opportunity cost, extremely low durability, and inability to support front-line forces. We are increasing the health and radius to give the Ammunition Storage increased survivability against direct and indirect fire while the bonuses have also been increased to solidify this structure’s role as a major force multiplier. 

  • Ability recharge, weapon cooldown, and reload bonuses increased from 25% to 33% 

  • Health increased from 280 to 480 

  • Aura radius increased from 30 to 35 


Infantry Assault 

The cost of Infantry Assault was a little too high, both in opportunity cost against the passive bonuses of Ranger Weapon Training and how quickly the ability could be shut down in certain circumstances. We are reducing the Command Point and munitions costs to increase accessibility given the high munition costs already required by the Advanced Infantry Battlegroup in the form of its Rangers. 

  • Command Point cost reduced from 4 to 3 

  • Munitions cost reduced from 120 to 100 

Wehrmacht 

  

Grenadier Squad 

We want the decision of Merge to be more of a calculated choice, rather than a player immediately using Merge to reinforce combat squads every time it takes a single casualty. The delay will force players to decide when they want to Merge during combat situations. 

  • Merge now has a 15 second cooldown 


2.5 Tonne Cargo Truck 

  • Cost changed from 240 manpower and 15 fuel to 250 manpower 

  • Now only provides resources to the owning player. Set at +8 munitions or +5 fuel depending on the point. 

  • Only one truck can be active at a signal resource point. 


Call the Reserves! 

We are reducing the cost of ‘Call the Reserves!’. While the ability is powerful, the requirements to set it up in advance, and the opportunity cost with the passive Bulwark ability made its current price too high. 

  • Munitions cost reduced from 125 to 100
     

British Forces 

 

Requisition Stuart Unlock 

With the reduction in the Stuart’s power, the fuel cost of the Stuart unlock can now be reduced. 

  • Fuel price decreased from 30 to 25 


Crusader 6-pounder Gun Conversion Upgrade 

We are increasing the point-blank penetration of the 6-pounder Crusader to make this unit stronger once it has closed the distance with enemy vehicles. 

  • Point-blank penetration increased from 180 to 220 


Foot Guards Section 

While Foot Guards could be powerful in the right circumstances, model losses affected them disproportionately compared to other infantry squads due to their Bazookas. We are further increasing the damage done by their SMGs to remedy their fast loss in DPS when taking casualties. 

  • Thompson SMG damage increased from 4 to 5 


Requsition Grant Unlock 

We want to maintain the Grant’s role as a very powerful tank once it has been unlocked that is more in line as a tier 4.5 tank, but it still comes too early, outcompeting other options even with the current costs.  

  • Fuel cost increased from 35 to 50 

 

CMP 15cwt Supply Run 

The CMP 15cwt Supply Run was too risky for what it offered despite it being a core ability to the Battlegroup. We are improving the ability by slightly reducing the cost and increasing the speed of the truck when it is returning to base. 

  • Loaded speed penalty decreased from 66% to 56% 

  • Manpower cost reduced from 150 to 125 

  

Indian Artillery War Cry 

We are reversing the Command Point cost of War Cry and Valour.  

  • Command Point Cost from 2 to 1 

  • Munition cost reduced from 125 to 100 


Indian Artillery Valor 

  • Command Point cost increased from 1 to 2
     

Deutsche Afrikakorps
 

Goliath 

  • Rotation speed increased from 45 to 55 


8- Rad Commander Mode – both Wehrmacht and Afrikakorps variants 

The bonuses provided by the 8-Rad's Commander mode were far too powerful in addition to the 8-Rad being able to spot targets from afar. The following change puts the 8-Rad's Commander mode to where its intended power should be. 

  • Reload and accuracy bonuses set to 20% from 30/40% 


Italian Infantry Sound the Alarm 

  • Command Point cost reduced from 2 to 1 


Propaganda War 

  • Munition cost reduced from 150 to 120 

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 4:47:01 PM

Some interesting changes. Keen to see how these affect the current meta.

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 4:53:37 PM

These should have a positive effect. The best change is the update to the US engineer squad. 

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 4:55:13 PM

some good changes in here. Any chance we could buff the foot guards grenade? I feel it should be on par with the Panzergrenadiers new nuclear grenade they get.

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:01:57 PM

Some of these are too large of an overhaul for a hotfix, but some, like the E8 price debuff/survivability + upgrade pen buff, could work.


My own two cents


Keep up the good work. I really hope you bring the important QoL feature where the double click on a unit card in the bottom right UI panel, will focus the camera on that unit. Something CoH2 has, and CoH3 lacks. You select 3 units, and you need to click on the unit card once, then double click on the large avatar, to focus the camera. I ask for you to make it so that double clicking on the unit card will focus the camera on the unit.


Kind regards

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:02:31 PM

No changes for the Grenadiers' 27.5 range fausts? Or the PGren grenade?

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:03:47 PM

Hope my boys in the Italian Combined Arms BG gets more love on their Strafe!

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:04:19 PM

Engineers/sappers for all factions should get access to explosive charges, probably after an HQ tech upgrade.
This was part of the gameplay loop since coh1, right now it is not possible to blow up bridges on purpose nor trap buildings.


The addition of the satchel to USF is perfectly welcome, that's why I bring this up!

Pretty nice changes, much calmer than previous patch, feels good ^^
Please a roadmap for soon-ish? :3

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:04:40 PM

Good patch! It's very good to fix BG capabilities. I hope to keep fixing other issues as well

1.Stoßtruppen Assult pack is useless

This design seems to have assumed the Infraed STG44 Package from coh2 Obersoldaten, but Obersoldaten is a relatively fast unit, and the price was 340mp, and the players had to choose between mg34Up or STG44, so they could choose. However, the current STG44 package cannot be used because it takes away the mg42, which is the expensive reason for StoßTruppen, and it has to bleed at the weakest close-combat. If you think about how expensive the StoßTruppen is, there is no reason to use it. It is an expensive unit that requires 420mp and a REINFORCE cost of "40". There is no reason to give up the long-range dps and consume the Muni as a close-combat unit.


Therefore, we propose to change the target to an upgrade of "Grenadiers" With similar abilities, WEHR's Breakthrough Battlegroup "Assault Grenadiers" I think it will complement the weak early combat power of the Mechanized Battlegroup and it will be a much more useful skill. If it's concerned that it will become too powerful, it can requir 0cp or 1cp. If the location is also changed with Mobile Repair stations, it would be better to choose between "vehicle sight" or "infantry firepower"

Or I think it would be good separate unit from stosstruppon loke UKF "LMG commado"it's to deploy an "infiltration Stoss(or other name)" armed with STG pack like coh2 unit "Stormtroopers". Wouldn't it be good to deploy it in a building like FallschirmJager coh1? The cost is 380mp~400mp.

2.Mechanized Battlegroup StuD Assault group is too underutilized

StuD Assault group In theory, it's good to have good anti-infantry units but I don't use it. They have big 2 problem.


  1.The price is too high 

StuD Assault group 650 50 resources is too expensive to come in at 3cp. In general player get 250 MP per second, I shouldn't consume MP for 2.5 minutes to deploy for Stud Assault group. If WEHR player know how important that time, it's a big risk to collect 650 MP without consuming them. And because it's too expensive, it's virtually impossible to collect more than 2 StuD. Compared to 8 rad, this ability is a skill for only "One Time". The 8 rad on the same line is a vehicle that is deployed alone and consumes only 300 40 resources. There is no burden on deployment because it is less resource. Therefore, if the StuD is composed of a price that comes out alone, it will be used a lot more

  2. it's only anti-infantry, so there's a problem with the anti-tank capability.

StuD and Stoss Trupporn are both excellent ANTI-INFANTRY units. But it's time for USF,UK vehicle to come out when it's 3CP. It's a lot of pressure to use 650 50 and pick up additional anti-tank units.  There is similar position but better than StuD Assault group. It's Wehr Luftwaffen battle group's call in "Luftwaffe Combat Group".  Wirbelwind is good to Anti-infantry unit and Jaeger squard can upgrade the Panzer Shrek to carry out anti-tank. It takes a very stable combination . StuD Assault group would have been balanced if the StuG came out. Conclusion - It is recommended to change the production of the StuD alone OR  to a combination of the StUG and the Stoss.


Bersaglieri Squad is so irrationality.

Bersaglieri Squad is a mobile unit that is depolyed at 260mp.They need to use it normally require excessive cp to use properly They need to invest "1cp" to get a " Bersaglieri Bolster" and using 2cp only for weapons "Right To Upgrade"  If SSF requires CP for weapons swaps or if airborne requires cp for lmg and Bazooka upgrade, who uses it? It's just Bersaglieri right now Also, if i used the Bersaglieri it doesn't use any skills that compete with the Bersaglieri skill, and the Italian tanks on the right tree have to come out quickly to be a favorable unit, but investing cp in strengthening Bersaglieri reduces its value Even if the current price of Beraglieri is raised, it should be paid on the basis of 6 squard and weapons upgrade




Updated 13 days ago.
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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:11:21 PM

All seem like good changes.


I find anti tank grenades make it extremely difficult to use light vehicles.

The panzerfaust especially at higher vets can shoot almost as far as a greyhound can see. It's really bad. I've lost a few games going for light vehicles as us because of the AT grenade buffs

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:12:47 PM

Concerning emplacements, the current system can be very frustrating for both players. I'd advise going back to the CoH1 way including for AT guns:
- Emplacement / weapon health does not get automatically damaged to ~10% or so when decrewed
- Bofor/Flak/Howitzer emplacements shifted to weapon crews (Flak36 system) for higher survivability / less chance to be hit & weapon health control, without making them indestructible.
Visually, that means no sandbags and a smaller area needed for construtction. Overall would be a major QoL change for the better imo.
- weapon healthpool
(separated from Crew HP, active even when weapon is crewed): grey bar overlapping crew HP.
- crew healthpool
- AT shields could bounce tank shells when it hits

Updated 13 days ago.
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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:21:46 PM

Keep up the good work. NIce to see regular work being done for the title. 

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:27:19 PM

No problems with any of this list!

But I’m still puzzled about the lack of Ranger changes….

They are unfairly powerful. I like asymmetry, but it needs be sensible. Please consider limiting the special weapons slots for a Ranger squad. Rangers with six weapon pick ups is bonkers and not right. They need be in line with EVERY other elite unit they forces the player to choose between specializations. With no limits, Rangers frequently have multiple flamethrowers AND bazookas, AND lmg’s. They become an all in one unit that also has near perfect accuracy while moving.


The suppression fix helped some, but Ranger blobs are still far too common and abused. They require almost no skill or effort as they can autotarget infantry AND vehicles and just wipe everything in their path without needing to flank or divide forces to target high priority enemies. They just blob and charge.


Add to this the magic wand of Riflemen to Rangers, and they get FREE experience. So early game Rangers are already strong enough to do anything with their new status and weapon stockpile. Why must Wehrmacht transfer their squads and lose all their experience, while Rangers just get a magical promotion with automatic xp buffs? The player no longer needs to get their Rangers vetted up, but gets all the bonuses right away.


This is too strong! I refuse to use the commander while playing Americans because it is too cheesey and broken.

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:40:50 PM

Weighing in on rangers, they are indeed a huge problem in the game right now. Unfun & confusing to interact with

foxinsox00 wrote:

No problems with any of this list!

But I’m still puzzled about the lack of Ranger changes….

They are unfairly powerful. I like asymmetry, but it needs be sensible. Please consider limiting the special weapons slots for a Ranger squad. Rangers with six weapon pick ups is bonkers and not right. They need be in line with EVERY other elite unit they forces the player to choose between specializations. With no limits, Rangers frequently have multiple flamethrowers AND bazookas, AND lmg’s. They become an all in one unit that also has near perfect accuracy while moving.


The suppression fix helped some, but Ranger blobs are still far too common and abused. They require almost no skill or effort as they can autotarget infantry AND vehicles and just wipe everything in their path without needing to flank or divide forces to target high priority enemies. They just blob and charge.


Add to this the magic wand of Riflemen to Rangers, and they get FREE experience. So early game Rangers are already strong enough to do anything with their new status and weapon stockpile. Why must Wehrmacht transfer their squads and lose all their experience, while Rangers just get a magical promotion with automatic xp buffs? The player no longer needs to get their Rangers vetted up, but gets all the bonuses right away.


This is too strong! I refuse to use the commander while playing Americans because it is too cheesey and broken.


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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:42:13 PM

Wayyyyy to many buffs to the Advanced Infantry Battlegroup. I my opinion the AIB is in a healthy state and only needs minor buffs to less used options.

The Ammunition Storage could use the health buff, and the aura radius buff could maybe be fine, but the aura bonuses buff is a bit too much. The Free Fire Drills and the Ammunition Storage buff could actually make the howitzer insane. i would keep the Free Fire Drills 3 command point since its a passive, keep the ready aim time buff and make the reload speed 13 seconds.

Designate Assault Position is fine as it is, does not need buffs. 

The Infantry Assault buff I'm not sure about. It could just use the munition buff,.but it still might make it too spammable, maybe just the command point buff and nerf the range weapons passive command points? I'm not sure. Infantry Assault is also bugged with the attack move bug which is hopefully fixed on this patch.


Fix the 2.5 Tonne Cargo Trucks veterancy rewards text, it says vet 1 unlocks a veterancy ability it does not have and it says vet 3 increases reinforcement range which it cant do. Also the unit picture overlapps the muntions resource icon.

Grenadier Squad Merge cooldown might make the ability feel clunky / fustruating to use. I have heard of solutions like making the merge model weaker, muntions cost based on how many models merged, ect that might be a more elegant change.

8- Rad Commander Mode could just be 25%, I feel like the ability is fine


Not sure if the Foot Guard buff is needed

Grant unlock could just be 10+ fuel


Detector range could use 5+ more range, maybe even more.

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:46:33 PM

Oh boy another 8 rad nerf. I swear relic has a few units that they just don't even want in the game. DAK is already an infantry faction at this point, why keep beating a dead horse? 


On a more levelheaded note, I'm not so sure about the camo or the designate assault position change. 


For camo, as seemingly one of the few players that doesn't refuse to use detection tools, camo already feels pretty weak. It's good when totally ignored but I just drop a flare or use a commander 4x4 and basically negate the entire point of the BG. It seems early to be nerfing a brand new mechanic so much when players haven't even gotten used to the tools to counter it. 


As for designate assault position, are we really sure we want to negate the one weakness rangers have? I do think that rangers are very weak right now, they bleed so hard that it is pretty easy to just bleed a ranger player out of the game. That said, do we really want a unit that just beats everything all of the time? Rangers with a couple of zooks beat almost every infantry in the game and can take down even the heaviest anti infantry vehicles. Their one counter is suppression. It seems like a better buff to rangers would be to empower some of their existing strengths or reduce some of their bleed, rather than removing the singular way to counter them.

Otherwise the changes seem pretty reasonable. Ammo storage seems like it's going to need more help than this, but it's a step in the right direction. Base engis getting a satchel is a bit of a terrifying prospect but the cost reduction makes a lot of sense. I like that supply run is getting some buffs but I still really wish it got reworked to be more of a core part of the bg. Like if you could purchase a supply truck that would continue to take the trip to and from the point till it died, but with reduced returns per trip (and maybe increased reward for killing it). I really want to lean into the "defend the truck" or "hunt the truck down" minigame. Right now it's mostly just an ability you use on your closest fuel if you want to tech rush to grants. It's really not a very interesting mechanic. Footgaurds are going to be monsters but that's probably ok since they are a T3 unit. Propaganda war is still useless, you can't make it take a super long time to activate and also make it ineffective against team weapons which would be the only thing you could hit with such a delayed ability... Goliath not being cloaked by 250/3 and being killed by a slight breeze is probably not something increased rotation rate is going to help. 


All in all these seem like fine changes, but I would encourage taking a look at the new bgs, updating the supply run, and incentivizing players to use detection tools rather than just nerfing camo into the ground. 

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:47:36 PM

Can we finally acknowledge the fact that all mobile AA guns are not created equal? The Flakvierling Half-Track is the only half track that suppresses infantry. I feel like this should either be removed or applied to all mobile AA half tracks. The USF m16 for example has four 50 cal HMG's attached to it and it does not suppress infantry. If I got shot at by quad 50 caliber machine guns my head would definitely be down. Also it does not have the same impact on the game as axis half tracks.

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13 days ago
Apr 18, 2024, 5:57:11 PM
Haganaz wrote:

Weighing in on rangers, they are indeed a huge problem in the game right now. Unfun & confusing to interact with

foxinsox00 wrote:

No problems with any of this list!

But I’m still puzzled about the lack of Ranger changes….

They are unfairly powerful. I like asymmetry, but it needs be sensible. Please consider limiting the special weapons slots for a Ranger squad. Rangers with six weapon pick ups is bonkers and not right. They need be in line with EVERY other elite unit they forces the player to choose between specializations. With no limits, Rangers frequently have multiple flamethrowers AND bazookas, AND lmg’s. They become an all in one unit that also has near perfect accuracy while moving.


The suppression fix helped some, but Ranger blobs are still far too common and abused. They require almost no skill or effort as they can autotarget infantry AND vehicles and just wipe everything in their path without needing to flank or divide forces to target high priority enemies. They just blob and charge.


Add to this the magic wand of Riflemen to Rangers, and they get FREE experience. So early game Rangers are already strong enough to do anything with their new status and weapon stockpile. Why must Wehrmacht transfer their squads and lose all their experience, while Rangers just get a magical promotion with automatic xp buffs? The player no longer needs to get their Rangers vetted up, but gets all the bonuses right away.


This is too strong! I refuse to use the commander while playing Americans because it is too cheesey and broken.

Rangers are not overpowered at all. They cost 500 manpower and are a drain on USF economy. Easily countered early game with axis light vehicles that will provide a constant bleed. It is a high risk high reward unit. You lose a ranger and the game is over. It costs 90 muni to get two RANDOM weapons and it is very RNG based. Very rare to see a game where you can get multiple ranger squads with all 6 weapon slots filled. Considering that advanced logistics got a heavy nerf to 70 fuel and that you pretty much need advanced logi to run rangers I would say that rangers are definitely not overpowered. Wher get advanced logi for free with the infantry reserves cp purchase from the Luftwaffe battlegroup.


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