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John_RE

John_RE

2 years ago Aug 04,2022, 20:33:49 PM

Mission Alpha CoH-Development Feedback

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Mission Alpha CoH-Development Feedback



It’s been an incredible couple of weeks here at Relic! We not only revealed Company of Heroes 3’s North African Operation, but we also got to see players go hands on for the first time with the Deutsches Afrikakorps in our Mission Alpha. We want to talk about some of the hottest topics you’ve been sharing with us and what our major takeaways have been. The entire team is working hard to make this the biggest and best Company of Heroes game yet, and we need your feedback to do just that. So keep it coming!


UI & UX 

There’s been discussion about the current direction of the in-game UI, and we hear you loud and clear. We’re working hard to take all that feedback onboard and to improve our UI for CoH3’s launch day. A lot of this work was already in progress, but your feedback here is critical in guiding that work over the finish line. That includes several things that you’ve called out like the HUD layout, the overall theming, and the minimap. It’s important that we find the right balance in the UI experience between the game’s design needs and the expectations of our players. This is a top area of focus for us right now and we’re working to get it locked down ASAP.  Next month, we hope to have another update for you with a better look at the changes we’re targeting for launch, including some mockups. 


Graphics, Art & Lighting 

The CoH franchise has always been well known for its cinematic action and attention to detail, and CoH3 will be no exception. Much of what we’ve shown is still work in progress, and we’re hard at work bringing visual elements in line with what you expect and love from our games. One of the key callouts from players was about the current contrast and general readability in CoH3, and we agree. Much of this stems from issues that are materials based, but we’re happy to say that most of the necessary fixes were already in our development pipeline. The Art team is currently in the post-alpha polish phase, when materials are balanced and set to more precise PBR (rendering) values which will improve readability and visual fidelity. The team have also clamped or limited darks in some cases, like environments, but have not set that for effects yet. Once completed, this will help to reduce contrast with effects materials that have not been tuned yet. Lighting is also being tuned with the goal of having a variety of lighting conditions that are still readable and easy on the eyes. This ultimately requires all the art to be balanced and tuned together, which the team is working on now. This should address the visual hierarchy of not just units on the battlefield, but FX too.  

Here are some before and after shots of our Mission Alpha with material polish and the same lighting as an example: 

Before

After - Still Work in Progress

Before

After - Still Work in Progress

Before

After - Still Work in Progress


Controls & Camera

We know customizing the player experience both for comfort and accessibility is incredibly important. When it comes to fully customizable key binding and further customization options, we’ve been working hard in collaboration with our sister teams at Relic for quite some time on this. If you take a look at some of the updates our other teams have released, you should get a good sense of the direction we’re headed. 

When it comes to seeing a CoH match unfold, camera positioning and height are key to making units look cool and having the action really come alive. We know some players feel there is something off about our current camera height in CoH3, and we totally agree. We have some major changes coming that will have a big impact on how the game looks and feels. Our maps in CoH3 now have significantly more elevation changes than in previous titles, and currently the tuning for zoom levels still needs to be applied across all our meshes on all our maps. Once this is implemented, that should make CoH3 look and feel more like you’d expect it to. Once we see how these changes behave in-game, we’ll have a better sense if this needs further tuning. With the increase in elevation changes across CoH3, it’s important to note that camera height will never be a one-to-one comparison with CoH 1 or 2. This mesh fix will also help with general readability across the board. We’ll be paying close attention to what players are saying about this in the months ahead! 


International Representation, Factions & Theatres 

The Mediterranean was one of the most diverse theaters in World War 2, with nations from all over the globe answering the call and playing their part. One of the most exciting aspects of this period in history is being able to draw on and share those incredible stories. We have a ton of ways that we can do this across the entire CoH3 experience, including through our narrative, factions, battlegroups, expansions, seasons, modes and more.  International representation is incredibly important to us, and we’ve already teased several units for the Commonwealth and Deutsches Afrikakorps that help bolster their ranks. Another thing we’ve heard you on is wanting to see more and more from the Italians. We plan on working with our players to grow Company of Heroes 3 for years to come and building out Italian representation will be a strong focus as we move forward.  We’ve seen some phenomenal feedback, suggestions, and ideas from players for new factions and fronts to bring to CoH3, and right now everything is on the table as we explore options! Rest assured that anything coming post-launch will feel fair for all players. We’re committed to this ongoing conversation with you through CoH-Development over the coming years. We’re also incredibly proud of the work the team has done to launch a CoH game with more factions and units than we ever have at launch, and we can’t wait to see the epic battles you’ll be having with them right out of the gate. 

An example of some of the Italian units coming at launch including the Guastatori, Bersaglieri, L6/40 Light Tank, Semovente Assault Gun, Cannon da 105 Howitzer and the M40/13 Tank.

As always, our team is incredibly excited to be working with our community to deliver on the best Company of Heroes experience in the franchise’s history. Your continued feedback and support are key parts of that process. Not only do we plan to deliver an amazing experience right out of the gate, but we’re in this for the long-haul, so you can expect even more cool stuff from the team for years to come.

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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 8:47:52 PM

I am proud of giving my feedback during the Mission, keep it up Relic!


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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 8:51:33 PM

I am looking forward to see what your plans are for Italy, for me personally I would like to see a full faction. It wasn't just Germany A B and C faction against the world. I would also like to see more french type units, they were present in the north Africa and Italy campaign.
As for future campaigns, I very much hope the open world campaign map of Italy will be the model going forward. I was dissapointed to see that africa was reduce to a string of maps rather than a real war front.

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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 8:57:29 PM

Graphics look much better overall! Definitely feels like it fits much better into the COH art style with the more gritty colors. I assume units not yet finished either because it still seems like they might be easy to lose in a hectic fight.
Italian units are great to see and I'm glad they are going to be well represented in the DAK battlegroups. Maybe we could get a post talking about the battlegroups and multiplayer stuff for the DAK and British? I'm itching to see what they offer.
UI and Camera changes being worked on is good news and hopefully that future post shows off good progress.
Overall happy to see changes like this and glad we are getting insight and chances to change stuff before the game comes out.

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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 8:58:54 PM

Awesome news and amazing work Relic. Everything looks great so far. Thank you again to provide us this unique opportunity to participate in the work progress of the game. I looking forward for the game. I would like to pre-order but it's a little expensive. I will have to wait for a discount to buy it. Congratulations to the Relic team and the community feedback.


Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 9:00:16 PM

Thanks for listening to feedback. The saturation, etc. looks so much better!

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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 9:09:07 PM

Nice to know *something* will be done. But next time I'd prefer simple bullet points on what exactly is going to happen to the camera view + UI, instead of the usual lipservice.

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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 9:09:14 PM

The visibility and graphic changes are awesome, great work guys, can't wait to play at launch!


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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 9:34:45 PM

I'm happy see that the time has come to put more attention into the details as the launch date approaches.


My biggest concern at this point is the UI. Specifically how Ctrl-Groups are handled. As a very heavy user of Ctrl-Groups, I find the new system far more tedious and error prone than the old system used in CoH1/2.


Allowing units to be in more than one group at a time (the new system) requires a lot of extra micro and is very error prone! You can't easily move units between groups any more as you must also remember to remove them from the old group. Redefining a group isn't possible either, it just adds the selected units to the group and then you have to find any existing ones and manually remove them. When units crew a team weapon, (oddly) they retain their group (even though they are really a new unit) and the remainder of the original squad is removed from their existing group... etc... You get the idea.


This it extremely cumbersome and irritating. While I realize that not all players even utilize groups, those of us who are very heavy users (I use them for everything and am constantly changing and redefining new ones on the fly), this new system isn't a welcome addition of functionality - it's cumbersome and greatly disrupts efficient group management.


What I'd like to see is at least the OPTION to have Ctrl-Groups behave the same way they currently do in CoH1/2. A reddit user suggested that AoE4 does allow this option (as I don't have AoE4 I can't confirm) and his guess was therefore CoH3 would do this too. Rather than a guess, I'd like to hear a comment from Relic directly about Ctrl-Group options if possible as it's is essential to the gameplay experience.


I'd like to add 2 points about Zoom level as well. First is that I believe situational awareness should trump close-up cinematic details. We can always zoom IN when we want to see the bling but with a limited zoom OUT level, we can't pull back enough to get a better tactical perspective. The Tac Map is fine but not a substitute for a wider zoom. Please err on the side of more visibility and let the player decide on the appropriate level rather than be limited by the game.


The other point about the maximum zoom out level is the maps. I use one of the many mods to enable a better field of view in CoH2. However, smoke/haze/etc. was tailored to this close zoom and there are odd clipping issues with smoke planes etc. when zooming out on certain maps. If the default zoom-out had been greater, I'm guessing maps would have been made with this in mind and accommodated a wider perspective without issue. The point of mentioning this is just to highlight that restrictive zoom level has consequences down the road beyond the obvious.


Just my 2¢ as always and hope it adds to the internal discussions. Best of luck on the home stretch! This is the only game I've been playing consistently for over 15 years and I really hope you all knock it out of the park! :-)  Cheers!


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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 9:52:53 PM

I concur with the need to zoom out more. 


I love the improved visuals. It should look and feel more gritty, more dirty, less colorful.


Projectiles (particularly large projectiles) should travel much faster, the currently feel like they are fired in slow motion.


Some of the veteran abilities that you gain as you level up feel really unimpressive, or too hard to micro. It would be nice if those could get another pass.


I noticed that some of the off-map call in abilities requite fuel. They have never required fuel before in previous titles (Tiger tank, Easy 8 Sherman's, etc.), they have always required just population resources or ammunition resources. Why the change now? 

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2 years ago
Aug 4, 2022, 11:46:09 PM
Zephyx wrote:

I noticed that some of the off-map call in abilities requite fuel. They have never required fuel before in previous titles (Tiger tank, Easy 8 Sherman's, etc.), they have always required just population resources or ammunition resources. Why the change now? 

Wrong, in CoH2 Encirclement Doctrine's Breakthrough ability that allows vehicles to capture territory, move faster and gives them increased reload costs fuel. This is better to balance resource value at different stages of the game.

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2 years ago
Aug 5, 2022, 12:00:16 AM
ask wrote:
Zephyx wrote:

I noticed that some of the off-map call in abilities requite fuel. They have never required fuel before in previous titles (Tiger tank, Easy 8 Sherman's, etc.), they have always required just population resources or ammunition resources. Why the change now? 

Wrong, in CoH2 Encirclement Doctrine's Breakthrough ability that allows vehicles to capture territory, move faster and gives them increased reload costs fuel. This is better to balance resource value at different stages of the game.

Yeah I think the call ins costing fuel is a good change to help balance out and time lock call ins. So someone can't just rush out a tiger or whatever.

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2 years ago
Aug 5, 2022, 6:32:33 AM

Merci pour tout votre travail acharné pour faire de nous un jeu encore meilleur. Je serai fier de pouvoir continuer l'aventure avec vous avec ce troisième opus.

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2 years ago
Aug 5, 2022, 11:19:09 AM

The graphics are a deal breaker to me. What you show here in the before and after pics are a significant upgrade. Even more in that direction might be "enough". But it will most likely always be way too cartoony for my (and a lot of others) taste. You can not turn away completely or reverse that so late into production. Too me the graphics are vastly more beautiful and appealing in CoH2. Which is a real shame and pity given the age difference. I think the majority of audience prefer the gritty realism graphics direction of CoH2 vs the colourful, blocky, undetailed, cartoony direction of CoH3.

In addition to that the balance and polish of CoH2 will be superior for years to come (even though one last balance patch is deeply needed. At least to nerf 120mm mortar, Scott and Thompson's)). I will guess forever.


So given that I personally is detached and uninterested in CoH3 and see no compelling reason to switch from CoH2 automatch to CoH3. Should note that campaigns and such are not something I spend any time with.


Br and gl

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Aug 5, 2022, 1:20:59 PM

Je možné aby si vojáci automaticky hledaly ukryt ? Je možné aby umělá inteligence ve hře měla dobrou úroveň ? Je možné aby bylo ve hře možné vypnout popisky při zásahu tanku ? Je možné aby vojáci na tanku nejen seděli ale aby taky mohly být s tankem spárování a následovaly tank a tím ho vlastně chránily ? Je možné zlepšit realitu a to tak že když poblíž dojde k explozi tak jednotky to usmrtí a vážně zraní ? Je možné aby na mapě projížděly vojenské vlaky v pohybu když už tam máme koleje ? Je možné aby ve hře byly i ponorky když už tam jsou i lodě ? Je možné aby ve městech se nacházely civilisti ? Je možné aby opravy tanku do 100% zdraví byly možné jen na základně ? Je možné aby vojáci podle zásahu přicházely o části těl a umíraly ? Je možné aby zranění vojáci měli sníženou pohyblivost ? Je možné aby se na mapě nacházely v lesích a skalách bunkry které nebude jednoduché dobít ? Aby obsazovací body nebyly jen nějaké stožáry ale opravdové budovy jako když chci palivo abych musel obsadit a vlastnit rafinerii, aby když chci ošetřovat vojáky tak obsadil či vlastnil nemocnici či polní nemocnici, atd .. ? Aby ničení a poškození odpovídalo skutečnosti ? Aby bylo možné uvést kobercový nálet s několika bombardéry a tento nálet byl pro lokalitu opravdu zničující ? Aby letadla byly na mapě vidět létat v plné kráse ? Výroba jednotek byla ve větším počtu vojáku ? 

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2 years ago
Aug 5, 2022, 1:25:42 PM

No one is talking about this, but would pretty useful to have stats for units, like vehicle armor, life, damage, speed, acceleration, infantry damage, reload time, life and etc.


So we don't need to get the game files to discovery hidden values of the units. This would make easier for the community to find problems and clear balance problems so the game can balanced faster. For people that like tanks would cool to compare stats with other tanks too.

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2 years ago
Aug 5, 2022, 1:41:13 PM

Nice to hear. Thank you for your hard work, commitment and listening to the community feedbacks

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2 years ago
Aug 5, 2022, 2:49:16 PM

That's some really good news. Glad you guys actually listen to feedback

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2 years ago
Aug 5, 2022, 3:03:01 PM
JLX wrote:

I'm happy see that the time has come to put more attention into the details as the launch date approaches.


My biggest concern at this point is the UI. Specifically how Ctrl-Groups are handled. As a very heavy user of Ctrl-Groups, I find the new system far more tedious and error prone than the old system used in CoH1/2.


Allowing units to be in more than one group at a time (the new system) requires a lot of extra micro and is very error prone! You can't easily move units between groups any more as you must also remember to remove them from the old group. Redefining a group isn't possible either, it just adds the selected units to the group and then you have to find any existing ones and manually remove them. When units crew a team weapon, (oddly) they retain their group (even though they are really a new unit) and the remainder of the original squad is removed from their existing group... etc... You get the idea.


This it extremely cumbersome and irritating. While I realize that not all players even utilize groups, those of us who are very heavy users (I use them for everything and am constantly changing and redefining new ones on the fly), this new system isn't a welcome addition of functionality - it's cumbersome and greatly disrupts efficient group management.


What I'd like to see is at least the OPTION to have Ctrl-Groups behave the same way they currently do in CoH1/2. A reddit user suggested that AoE4 does allow this option (as I don't have AoE4 I can't confirm) and his guess was therefore CoH3 would do this too. Rather than a guess, I'd like to hear a comment from Relic directly about Ctrl-Group options if possible as it's is essential to the gameplay experience.


I'd like to add 2 points about Zoom level as well. First is that I believe situational awareness should trump close-up cinematic details. We can always zoom IN when we want to see the bling but with a limited zoom OUT level, we can't pull back enough to get a better tactical perspective. The Tac Map is fine but not a substitute for a wider zoom. Please err on the side of more visibility and let the player decide on the appropriate level rather than be limited by the game.


The other point about the maximum zoom out level is the maps. I use one of the many mods to enable a better field of view in CoH2. However, smoke/haze/etc. was tailored to this close zoom and there are odd clipping issues with smoke planes etc. when zooming out on certain maps. If the default zoom-out had been greater, I'm guessing maps would have been made with this in mind and accommodated a wider perspective without issue. The point of mentioning this is just to highlight that restrictive zoom level has consequences down the road beyond the obvious.


Just my 2¢ as always and hope it adds to the internal discussions. Best of luck on the home stretch! This is the only game I've been playing consistently for over 15 years and I really hope you all knock it out of the park! :-)  Cheers!


Exactly! I agree 100% with everything you said here. I own AOE 4, play it, and it suffers from the same low level zoom and the same Control-Group issues you pointed out here. COH1/2 had the Control-Group situation perfect. COH 3 should go back to that exact same thing, and AOE 4 should adopt it as well.

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