Question - would anybody really be sad if they removed or changed Passive Abilities that reduced Manpower cost of units? Personally, I feel like it's terrible game design that just enables sloppy, braindead play of brute force engagements ignoring cover or throwing away units because in manpower trades you almost always come out ahead. It's the exact opposite of a core premise of unit preservation. 

USF is particularly egregious where Triage Tents and Infantry Support Center (picked the VAST majority of times) enable Rifle or Ranger spam often coupled with Armor Company Easy 8s (also very popular and comes with Armor Manpower reduction).  Luftwaffe lets you spam elite Pioneers and Falls and completely ignore the core roster if you want. Indian Arty was and probably still is one of the more popular Brit choices.  All of these battlegroups almost never see the opposite teching choice picked because the Manpower Reduction is just TOO good to pass up. With Wher you almost never see the base healing because medic bunkers do the same thing and better. Simply put, I think anything that facilitate infantry to be used in a meat grinder fashion needs to be toned down.  

I would say Manpower Reduction abilities should be changed to timed abilities with a cost and/or cooldown. Similarly, it could be a "token" system where you pay a munitions cost to buy a token and your next unit is cheaper or next "X" number of reinforcements are cheaper. Also, Medic Bunkers and Triage Stations should have a limited range of causality collection to allow counterplay by having to build them somewhat close to the front line. 

People have been asking for Relic to remove or change these abilities for a while and they haven't. I agree they ruin the game. They should be timed abilities that while active decrease reinforcement time and cost and grant a small amount of manpower whenever an infantry model is killed on the field. I think that would be a good design.

Guys, every upgrade that gives units more endurance like more health, a damage reduction, better received accuracy or more armor basically does the same. Less casualties leads to more manpower and fuel to spend on other units. Half of the game is centered around these abilities.

Remove them all and you have a totally different game. I do think that is quite unrealistic.

gawain_77 wrote:

Guys, every upgrade that gives units more endurance like more health, a damage reduction, better received accuracy or more armor basically does the same. Less casualties leads to more manpower and fuel to spend on other units. Half of the game is centered around these abilities.

Remove them all and you have a totally different game. I do think that is quite unrealistic.

DAK dont even GET a passive manpower cheat. The op is right about them, they encourage brute force blobbing with no real way to punish it. These abilities shouldnt be in the game, period.

Instead of removing these abilities and putting something else in their place I guess we are just getting higher reinforcement costs instead FeelsBadMan 

Prime_Clarity wrote:

Instead of removing these abilities and putting something else in their place I guess we are just getting higher reinforcement costs instead FeelsBadMan 

The best part of it is, USF won't even be bothered by the manpower changes since they get stacking manpower cheats base kit. Doesn't matter if you get less income if you can't be bled. 

Nightshade878 wrote:

Prime_Clarity wrote:

Instead of removing these abilities and putting something else in their place I guess we are just getting higher reinforcement costs instead FeelsBadMan 

The best part of it is, USF won't even be bothered by the manpower changes since they get stacking manpower cheats base kit. Doesn't matter if you get less income if you can't be bled. 

You do realise that USF is an infranty faction right? It is literally the design of the faction to be able to field inf. It lacks in indirect and good tanks

aceridgey wrote:

Nightshade878 wrote:

Prime_Clarity wrote:

Instead of removing these abilities and putting something else in their place I guess we are just getting higher reinforcement costs instead FeelsBadMan 

The best part of it is, USF won't even be bothered by the manpower changes since they get stacking manpower cheats base kit. Doesn't matter if you get less income if you can't be bled. 

You do realise that USF is an infranty faction right? It is literally the design of the faction to be able to field inf. It lacks in indirect and good tanks

I also find this true and funny. I feel that if they change this, the same would be expected to not make the 'cheap Dak light vehicles' not cheap and add extra fuel just 'fOr BaLaNcE' reasons.

Brits and Wer are similar (but Brits with less infantry choices, I wish it wasn't true).

With US being infantry heavy.

With Dak being light vehicle heavy.

HouseHarkonnen wrote:

I also find this true and funny. I feel that if they change this, the same would be expected to not make the 'cheap Dak light vehicles' not cheap and add extra fuel just 'fOr BaLaNcE' reasons.

Brits and Wer are similar (but Brits with less infantry choices, I wish it wasn't true).

With US being infantry heavy.

With Dak being light vehicle heavy.

What are you on about? What cheap light vehicles for DAK? Where is this cheap vic that allies don't get? The only one I can agree is "special" for DAK is the flak halftrack. Ok, that is a very good and fairly cheap vehicle which still looses to the cheaper humber without upgrades but is better against inf so... Please tell me where are the other ones? I would love to know. Greyhound is way better than 8-rad on every level. chafee is meh but is fantastic for wiping mobile indirect on the axis side. The gun motor carriage is for the most part a better marder, more mobile, more utility, great at dealing with emplacements and team weapons as well as any armor that isn't a tiger or stug (marders also don't do very well against late armor but they are worse all throughout the early and mid game). The scott is a much more powerful stug that will simply roll over axis if they get it before axis gets tanks. The recon tractor is hard to fit in any build cause all it does is spot and it is expensive for just that especially considering the fact that DAK is always at a disadvantage as far as field presence goes. Brits don't get specialists early but their tanks can do everything decently and the DAK specialists simply need to make one mistake to be circled by the do it all brit lights (plus you need more of them so you can fill the roles and two stuarts easily beat a marder and 8-rad combo). Dingo annihilates the 250 as well. Imagine, you get a same tier vic for just 10 more mp that just braindead rushes down the 250 and even if you have inf in support it will usually just kill the 250 and back away and there is nothing you can do but watch. Even a garrisoned 250 will loose to the damn dingo. It really is egregious. And again once more the magical DAK units that are so amazing (after 1200mp of upgrades which are spent by the allies on getting more units) scale slightly better after the upgrades and all the micro you have to do DAK is able to win a 1v1 but the problem is it never is a 1v1 it is always 1v2. 

aceridgey wrote:

Nightshade878 wrote:

Prime_Clarity wrote:

Instead of removing these abilities and putting something else in their place I guess we are just getting higher reinforcement costs instead FeelsBadMan 

The best part of it is, USF won't even be bothered by the manpower changes since they get stacking manpower cheats base kit. Doesn't matter if you get less income if you can't be bled. 

You do realise that USF is an infranty faction right? It is literally the design of the faction to be able to field inf. It lacks in indirect and good tanks

LOL Are you serious??? USF gets the Easy Eight, the Hellcat, the 110mm, AND the M4, two of which just got blanket buffs. It doesnt lack good tanks, it has some of the best spammable tanks in the game. I cant even deal with this blatant bullshit, you're not living in reality. 

You cant give USF great tanks AND the best Elite in the game at 1CP AND the best manpower cheats without having to dip into Battlegroups and then say USF aren't a problem.

HouseHarkonnen wrote:

aceridgey wrote:

Nightshade878 wrote:

Prime_Clarity wrote:

Instead of removing these abilities and putting something else in their place I guess we are just getting higher reinforcement costs instead FeelsBadMan 

The best part of it is, USF won't even be bothered by the manpower changes since they get stacking manpower cheats base kit. Doesn't matter if you get less income if you can't be bled. 

You do realise that USF is an infranty faction right? It is literally the design of the faction to be able to field inf. It lacks in indirect and good tanks

I also find this true and funny. I feel that if they change this, the same would be expected to not make the 'cheap Dak light vehicles' not cheap and add extra fuel just 'fOr BaLaNcE' reasons.

Brits and Wer are similar (but Brits with less infantry choices, I wish it wasn't true).

With US being infantry heavy.

With Dak being light vehicle heavy.

Lol DAK light vehicles die if you sneeze on them. Saying they're light vehicle heavy with the game being in the state it is no different than saying DAK are the faction that explodes the most.

Relax dude, USF has a FEW good things to hopefully counter the OP german bullshit...
German has insane indirect, insane final tier tanks, guastatori squads that are unkillable, grenade launcher troops, and that's the tip of the iceberg lol