So I've played probably 35 games over the last week, and every US player every game is going this commander...

Zerg rush of insta army.... rangers squads with sprint heavy weapon rush ... the arty blob of insta wipe....

Come on... has someone got some stats about performance of this commander... the win / loss ratio by ELO class when using this Battlegroup?  Bewildering abilities that are just uncounterable... I can pin the insta blob for a bit but then either multiple ranger squads or 4 squads of bar rifles rush in as  well and hellcats and arty... there's just no counter for this... everything is so resilient even if I focus all my army on one of these things it takes so long to even kill a ranger model that the rest of the abilities destroy your force... and every one of these abilities counters all threats... the zerg army comes armed with everything, as generally do rangers by then...

It would be nice to just face something else from a US player but why would you choose something that isn't head and shoulders more powerful as a BG...

I find the rangers bg rather weak. Rangers are very good, but they also cost a ton and in the early game this means less squads , less territory control and fewer means to flank mg's thus a single retreat may already cost you the game. the rng nature of their weapon drops may leave you with inadequate AT to deal with a stummel , flak or even a scout car.  Now the wehr has better tools to deal with rangers. Stossies still dominate rangers and the luftwaffe doctrine has plenty of anti blob abilities. But i can see why the DAK struggles against this doctrine in the late game.

Zyllen wrote:

I find the rangers bg rather weak. Rangers are very good, but they also cost a ton and in the early game this means less squads , less territory control and fewer means to flank mg's thus a single retreat may already cost you the game. the rng nature of their weapon drops may leave you with inadequate AT to deal with a stummel , flak or even a scout car.  Now the wehr has better tools to deal with rangers. Stossies still dominate rangers and the luftwaffe doctrine has plenty of anti blob abilities. But i can see why the DAK struggles against this doctrine in the late game.

Well you're in the minority and insta army zerg rush just ties up my army while your supersoldier rangers flank and kill an unit type...  I'm not sure you're using it effectively.  I think it's too effective with all the abilities it brings.... and the rangers get to vet 3 so fast while  units I've had from start of game are barely vet 2.

Also doesn't answer my question about win loss ratio by ELO class using this BG, trying to get a little science...

If you encounter rangers as wermacht then rush for brumbär fast as possible. All theyr ressurces are going for rangers. Use also many landmines. After you hit T4 its easy . Also some mg's wil hold them back.

This is just unrealistic, rangers appear within 4 mins, takes me 15+ to get a brumbar minium if I can hold fuels... and even if I bring it in then it's just zerg rush army, that US commander is a joke... every US player every game uses it... it's just so plainly obvious... sprinting bars blobs overrunning anything....

People say the MP drain of losing rangers is the weakness, they are so ridiculously resilient to losing any models and by the time they do they have dished out so much damage, getting them so much vet that they become even more ridiculous...  I'm wasting my breath until it's patched, if ever.

The game is usually really well balanced in 2vs2's I play until zerg rush etc then it just instantly over, you never recover from the push back

You are right, however a great counter are le.ig mortars are quite decent to counter, plus you need to have something to supress, you got that, then brain power should be able to win 

pity the game isn't based on brainpower, it relies on you having MGs setup perfectly correctly everytime or you are overrun and I play wehr so I can't even access leig and nebel is just rubbish, scatted is so much its far too inconsistent to threaten even static targets let alone moving rangers with uber sprint

i want to see one of your replays if you cannot handle rangers with mg's you likely just have shit micro.

Didn't record it but just did a test in game... 2 Falls, 2 luft pios with lmgs and 1 luft pio without... I was standing still, rangers walk up in open with me firing all the time, he wipes a squad and then runs off and not wiped.  How can 5vs1 he not even get close to being wiped while he can move, while I stand there all the time blasting away and not kill him.

It's just insane.  That's like triple the manpower I've assembled, static, firing with upgrades....

Next time I'll stick recording on.

Zyllen wrote:

i want to see one of your replays if you cannot handle rangers with mg's you likely just have shit micro.

My micro is good but even with mgs, he uses the commander arty or zerg rushes the other side with insta army... people make paper claims of how to counter on a forum but it's just not the way the game works for anyone above 1000 ELO... and that battlegroup is an instant +200 ELO.

btw I continue to keep tabs and it's now 36 games played vs US and only 1 has not gone advanced infantry.... he went assault engs and I won that game.... 1 out of 36 times someone chose non advanced inf

Pick rangers. Lose game. At least in higher elos.
PIck rangers. Win game. Against really bad players.
Overall. Balanced. Could use a rework on the suppression modifiers. But that's it. Maybe make their weapon drops be consistent. 2 weapon drops. One only zooks. Other flamer/bar/m1919. And to balance that. Make them cost more CP to unlock. So they arrive later.

That's it. Considering their price/performance ratio. I'd say it's close to 1.

Fatal_Thoughts wrote:

The only good counter and what I love as wehr is sniper... actually confirmedly kills rangers.  

They should move rangers back a few CP, best elite inf of the game shouldn't come out that early and increase the cool down time on the zerg insta army significantly.  I think that would make the right changes

To me this is my biggest issue with them the 1cp is silly when all other elite is 2cp. They could also just make the upgrade cooldown be significantly higher than it is, 6m like the dak callins. Soft nerf's like this would really slow the BG down and make lights have a better window against it, would also punish the player for getting early ISC upgrades which in turn makes ranger bleed more significant. 

Jonnies wrote:

Fatal_Thoughts wrote:

The only good counter and what I love as wehr is sniper... actually confirmedly kills rangers.  

They should move rangers back a few CP, best elite inf of the game shouldn't come out that early and increase the cool down time on the zerg insta army significantly.  I think that would make the right changes

To me this is my biggest issue with them the 1cp is silly when all other elite is 2cp. They could also just make the upgrade cooldown be significantly higher than it is, 6m like the dak callins. Soft nerf's like this would really slow the BG down and make lights have a better window against it, would also punish the player for getting early ISC upgrades which in turn makes ranger bleed more significant. 

yeah 1CP is just too early... wehr can call in Falls at 2CP and they are rubbish compared to rangers and can't field the upgrades or resilience or abilities.

Zyllen wrote:

i want to see one of your replays if you cannot handle rangers with mg's you likely just have shit micro.

Mate, playing rangers is having shit micro. It's the most bollox unit in game with such a high DPS even un-upgraded they can wipe 1/4th health squad on retreat by freaking accident.

If I know my opponent is playing rangers then I pump out like 3 machine guns. Easy counter. 

Rangers are good starting mid-game, otherwise its rather a boring BG, in 1v1 it can be solid, but a good micro can really hurt them hard....

I would agree on nerfing the weapons slot and increasing it by 1 each time they gain vet, it doesnt make any sense to have 6 weapons slot, nor the transfer of vet 3 rifles to vet 3 Rangers... 

PLDroneOperator wrote:

If I know my opponent is playing rangers then I pump out like 3 machine guns. Easy counter. 

Greyhound.... plus the rangers sprint past a lot of stuff, it all sounds workable but in reality, it doesn't really work as a reliable counter, they will just drop arty either call in or built... it's powerful all round as a BG, I'm not saying nerf it all, it just needs the edge taken off and there are a lot of ways to do that but something needs to be done... 

How wonderful 2048 cupcakes look