I absolutely agree; the difficulties are precisely what you mentioned.  To survive through all of that and reach a point in the game where you might be able to compete, you need to have a lot of skill, but even then, allies will tank spam or arty you to death.  

I agree and I also think DAK needs it too, so that is what I'll go over. Tdhe issue is not necessarily the performance of the units in and of itself but the fact that they are crazy expensive. For example. On maps with buildings on important points you absolutely need some form of indirect fire or you won't be able to dislodge units. Allies get mortars almost immediately from their 15 fuel buildings for the huge huge cost of 260mp. Meanwhile DAK has to:
1. Get a 250 halftrack for... 250 mp
2. Build T1 for 35 fuel
3. Get the halftrack upgrade for 150mp
4. Finally buy the mortar upgrade for 75 munitions.
And this would be ok I guess if the DAK mortar was significantly better but it just isn't It's definitely worse than the US laser beam mortar which for some unknown reason has multiple times better scatter modifiers than other mortars (over two times better) while having the same damage and AOE and for the love of me I cannot understand why. It has the same stats as the wehr and ukf mortar but costs 400mp and 75 muni ffs. All this time the laser accurate US mortars evaporate your infantry and team weapons and if you don't use your orb of clairvoyance and predict that the enemy player used a barrage on your 250 it will kill the 250 in two direct shots.

This was an example but this theme is all accross the board the same. Allies get cheaper units that are usually better or on a similar level that don't require the slightest bit of thought to play and as axis factions you need to do a milion bullshit things like making sure you have vics with your inf so they get the bonus, not loosing anything because your upgrades are super expensive and you need to maintain your vet to get the other bonuses like the med truck bonus and other things to even think of having the slightest chance vs a braindead blob that has one click access to everything they need and doesn't need to pull any tricks to get their full stats. Now this would be ok if playing the full combined arms setup gave you an actual advantage but it doesn't it just barely allows you to keep pace.

The obvious example of this is the DAK pgren situation. In order to give them the slightest chance of winning with rifleman you need them to:
1. Have a vic nearby (cheapest option is krad for 180mp)
2. Need to have the 6 man upgrade (250mp)
3. To have a fairly certain victory you also need the machinegun for 100 munitions.
So... what is the problem here? you just spent 730mp and 100muni to get a single pgren squad that is able to win against a rifle squad. You have gained no additional utility or anything. The krad is super easy to kill and probably will die if you don't keep it out of the fight after the early game so basically you have an additional capping unit and one pgren squad for the cost of 3 rifle squads. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which is better. And... Rifles can also get upgrades at which point it is more or less a fair fight but they have two more squads than you and you have a funny motorcycle that can't fcking back up despite the real thing having a damn reverse gear. Luckily for axis, we need to remove the things they actually had, but lets give allies black princes that never saw the war. And this is core stuff we are talking about, not some weird niche side tech unit but core absolutely needed units. The bad stuff for allies is all bs that is just there as an interesting add on and not core build.

Another thing is the med trucks, why the hell is the DAK truck a one shot kill? The brit one has almost twice the Hp, just why?

You forgot to mention vet 1 on the US mortar... once airburst comes out the first shot will 75% destroy any infantry under neath it and if it's a weapons team in the time needed to pack it up the second shot will land and auto wipe it completely... then roll in the 7 bar rifle squads... gg that game and every game

SEPH_27 wrote:

I agree and I also think DAK needs it too, so that is what I'll go over. Tdhe issue is not necessarily the performance of the units in and of itself but the fact that they are crazy expensive. For example. On maps with buildings on important points you absolutely need some form of indirect fire or you won't be able to dislodge units. Allies get mortars almost immediately from their 15 fuel buildings for the huge huge cost of 260mp. Meanwhile DAK has to:
1. Get a 250 halftrack for... 250 mp
2. Build T1 for 35 fuel
3. Get the halftrack upgrade for 150mp
4. Finally buy the mortar upgrade for 75 munitions.
And this would be ok I guess if the DAK mortar was significantly better but it just isn't It's definitely worse than the US laser beam mortar which for some unknown reason has multiple times better scatter modifiers than other mortars (over two times better) while having the same damage and AOE and for the love of me I cannot understand why. It has the same stats as the wehr and ukf mortar but costs 400mp and 75 muni ffs. All this time the laser accurate US mortars evaporate your infantry and team weapons and if you don't use your orb of clairvoyance and predict that the enemy player used a barrage on your 250 it will kill the 250 in two direct shots.

This was an example but this theme is all accross the board the same. Allies get cheaper units that are usually better or on a similar level that don't require the slightest bit of thought to play and as axis factions you need to do a milion bullshit things like making sure you have vics with your inf so they get the bonus, not loosing anything because your upgrades are super expensive and you need to maintain your vet to get the other bonuses like the med truck bonus and other things to even think of having the slightest chance vs a braindead blob that has one click access to everything they need and doesn't need to pull any tricks to get their full stats. Now this would be ok if playing the full combined arms setup gave you an actual advantage but it doesn't it just barely allows you to keep pace.

The obvious example of this is the DAK pgren situation. In order to give them the slightest chance of winning with rifleman you need them to:
1. Have a vic nearby (cheapest option is krad for 180mp)
2. Need to have the 6 man upgrade (250mp)
3. To have a fairly certain victory you also need the machinegun for 100 munitions.
So... what is the problem here? you just spent 730mp and 100muni to get a single pgren squad that is able to win against a rifle squad. You have gained no additional utility or anything. The krad is super easy to kill and probably will die if you don't keep it out of the fight after the early game so basically you have an additional capping unit and one pgren squad for the cost of 3 rifle squads. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which is better. And... Rifles can also get upgrades at which point it is more or less a fair fight but they have two more squads than you and you have a funny motorcycle that can't fcking back up despite the real thing having a damn reverse gear. Luckily for axis, we need to remove the things they actually had, but lets give allies black princes that never saw the war. And this is core stuff we are talking about, not some weird niche side tech unit but core absolutely needed units. The bad stuff for allies is all bs that is just there as an interesting add on and not core build.

Another thing is the med trucks, why the hell is the DAK truck a one shot kill? The brit one has almost twice the Hp, just why?

But I'm actually not sure Wehr needs a rework, I've long said the edge needs to be taken off the allies... nerf grants a little, remove the silly infantry company bonuses for USF and tone down airburst and someone else had a really good idea to increase received accuracy for blobs so the rifle blobs get penalised etc.  Small changes that make a big difference.

Though I do agree on things like DAK bike etc, for it to be useful as a recon unit it needs to be too near to combat and dies instantly.  Wehr need some more consistent recon, allies have so much stock and battlegroup recon vs ger.  Again makes spotting and artying anything that counters the allied blobs far too easy.

Fatal_Thoughts wrote:

But I'm actually not sure Wehr needs a rework, I've long said the edge needs to be taken off the allies... nerf grants a little, remove the silly infantry company bonuses for USF and tone down airburst and someone else had a really good idea to increase received accuracy for blobs so the rifle blobs get penalised etc.  Small changes that make a big difference.

Though I do agree on things like DAK bike etc, for it to be useful as a recon unit it needs to be too near to combat and dies instantly.  Wehr need some more consistent recon, allies have so much stock and battlegroup recon vs ger.  Again makes spotting and artying anything that counters the allied blobs far too easy.

Sure, Relic could go that way. But in my eyes this would cause way more work in the end.

Not saying that it is wrong tho, but there is a lot more you haven't mentioned.

All this Manpower cheats, 6 weapons on a ranger squad...  Also that they're the only unit, who can shot certain weapons on the move...

And why on earth is USF the only faction, which can choose between vet upgrades??? I simply don't get it...  This allows them to adapt way more effectively to current conditions.

Or for eg. why does the Brit have a Bishop the most strongest artillery piece as a non-doctrinal choice ?? It is just ridiculous how good that ting is. And it directly hard counters every Teamweapons & Emplacements.

So many questionable decisions!

In my opinion Wehr needs a urgent rework in order to hopefully catch up with all the weird choices the devs are making.

Supply Surplus

loiter

british t4 refund

ranger

grant

Ammunition Storage

all need nerf

and Ammunition Storage can reduce bishop barrage to 20s cd and till now they still not nerf it , i should say, the game have so few player have a reason

wusadsaw wrote:
british t4 refund

Totally forgot about this but come to think of it, USF can choose vet and the support centers, brits have vehicle refund, DAK has the universal utility like capping on all vehicles, repair on inf and so on. What is the special sauce for wehr? Maybe it just isn't coming to mind at the moment but I think they have nothing?

SEPH_27 wrote:

wusadsaw wrote:
british t4 refund

Totally forgot about this but come to think of it, USF can choose vet and the support centers, brits have vehicle refund, DAK has the universal utility like capping on all vehicles, repair on inf and so on. What is the special sauce for wehr? Maybe it just isn't coming to mind at the moment but I think they have nothing?

-Wehr has by far the least amount of upgrades.
-Their early is by far the weakest (not only weak, I believe it is obviously unfair / unbalanced, USF easily outnumbers you right away and there is nothing you can do about it!)
-They highly depend on the right choice of doctrine (eg. you need Panthers or a Tiger to deal with the heavy Brit armor. Or Wespe / Obice, if they dig in) [Not like Brits, which always can go Bishop just in case...]

-Everything feels so expensive, if you lose something, there is almost zero chance of a recover. Allies feel way more forgiving! I had so many wipes and yet they still could compete with me...

I don't see any unique advantage Wehr has over other factions. Maybe the Vet upgrade on its buildings? Which Is nice in general, but cots so much that you mostly get it (to)late

SEPH_27 wrote:

wusadsaw wrote:
british t4 refund

Totally forgot about this but come to think of it, USF can choose vet and the support centers, brits have vehicle refund, DAK has the universal utility like capping on all vehicles, repair on inf and so on. What is the special sauce for wehr? Maybe it just isn't coming to mind at the moment but I think they have nothing?

Maybe merge I guess? It is quite powerful if used correctly. I know grens pay for it in performance but im talking the MP reduction ability of it, if micro well with luff it can challenge USF's MP reductions. 

 I wouldn't consider it a faction mechanic on its own though. Feels they need a little something extra. 

Jonnies wrote:

SEPH_27 wrote:

wusadsaw wrote:
british t4 refund

Totally forgot about this but come to think of it, USF can choose vet and the support centers, brits have vehicle refund, DAK has the universal utility like capping on all vehicles, repair on inf and so on. What is the special sauce for wehr? Maybe it just isn't coming to mind at the moment but I think they have nothing?

Maybe merge I guess? It is quite powerful if used correctly. I know grens pay for it in performance but im talking the MP reduction ability of it, if micro well with luff it can challenge USF's MP reductions. 

 I wouldn't consider it a faction mechanic on its own though. Feels they need a little something extra. 

Good idea, but nah...  I am using it all the time. And it is not a huge thing. It starts to pay off more once you have more expensive units like Pgrens or Jäger. In the very early stage the enemies just swap the target then. Since after using it, it leaves the Grens I just used it with, is low then instead.. (and they always have more units either way..).

It is a general issue, that BOTH Allies have such strong first main-lane-infantry!! With very good upgrade possibilities... (even Dak can!). Only Wehr got super weak Volks with no upgrades (except with doctrine).

So this game-desing gives Wehr right away an huge disatvantage over all other factions. And since this gamedesing benefits from spam&roam, which doesn't really require any much multitasking nor skill in general. Wehr always will more likely lose.. especially in the early stage, since Allies ALSO have access to vehicles right away (Wehr not!). And they cannot do anything against them! (as mentioned above in my earlier post already)

Wehr urgently needs a rework!!! Some additionally units to help with the start/early of the game, not just a buff or something.
Weaken the scout car and give it to the Tier1 building. Or swap the Ketten to a Kübel, a Kfz-13 or something. Or bring back the Osttruppen for T1, to assist in numbers against the new Redarmy-style USF faction.

Something fundamental has to be done. With this techtree Wehrmacht has currently, and the current beneficial spam and roam style (bc they can, except Wehr) Wehrmacht will ALWAYS be the worst faction in the game (which it is since release). Statistics proof!!!

The only thing Whermacht really needs is a rework of the Stug. It sucks vs Tanks and it Sucks vs Infantry. They need to get rid of the Vet 1 ability and allow for Ammo Swap like the Panzer 4 Command Tank (Switching between Anti Tank and Anti-Infantry Rounds). 

Honestly, come to think of it It would be best to rework all other factions rather than wehr xd. My biggest wish is to see a different form of gameplay than the allied blob. Game after game these mindless masses just going forward... I have to kill 3-4 times more than them to pull out a victory it really is abhorent.