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Ostheer Faction Design

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2 years ago
Apr 30, 2023, 1:46:19 PM

As the companion to my Soviet Design found here: https://community.companyofheroes.com/coh-franchise-home/company-of-heroes-3/forums/9-coh3-feedback/threads/9950-soviet-faction-design?page=1#post-31618

I also did a design for Ostheer. Like I said in that other thread, I feel the Eastern front is the way to go. This Ostheer faction tries to make use of a number of units that have never been used in Coh before, some old favourites from previous games and as many of the new mechanics as possible. Before anyone raises historical accuracy comments, 2 words; Black Prince. 

I will keep light on the text and let the diagram speak for itself:

A few notes on the design. Landsers would be the mainline infantry, 5 models with K98 rifles. The Kubel would be essentially a capping unit but can be upgraded with an MG for munitions. Alternatively it can upgrade to an ambulance, for infield reinforcement and healing, or with radio sets, for passive detection in the FOW. Before being upgraded, it would be cool if it had the ability to transport a squad in a similar manner to the Universal carrier of Coh2 (ie the models can’t shoot). It would also be nice if it could tow weapons as well. However, the SDKFZ. 9 would be the primary towing and reinforcement vehicle of the faction. I could well imagine it having 2 different upgrades:

  • Famo Recovery Vehicle
  • Flak 88 Conversion.

The Flak upgrade would require Tier Gamma. With the Flak 88, it would essentially be able to lock down and become the towed Flak88 of DAK, however, more vulnerable to other vehicles and less vulnerable to infantry and indirect. I could see this having 2 modes, a moving mode where it can relocate but is unable to fire, but then also a firing mode where its stationary and can fire in a 360 degree arc. Similarly, the Panzer I would also have a number of upgrades:

  • 20mm Flak Upgrade.
  • Panzerjäger upgrade (47mm AT gun).
  • Sig 33 Howitzer upgrade.

The first 2 upgrades require either T3/T4 to be constructed before they can be purchased and the Sig 33 would require Tier Beta. The Panzer I should basically have a power level somewhat like the upgraded Bren carrier in Coh2, with the Panzerjäger upgrade it would be like a weak Marder and with the Sig33 upgrade it would fill the same niche as the Bishop. 

Combat medics would be a 3 man squad which passively heal nearby squads when out of combat. Another cool ability would be if they could target causalities on the battlefield and revive them, to reinforce nearby squads, allowing for in field reinforcements. 

Sturmpios can construct 'Watchtowers'. So when I say watchtower, I’m thinking the tall wooden structures that are somewhat of a WW2 cliché. I’m thinking around 100-150 manpower. Garisonable but also vulnerable to small arms. It would allow players to take advantage of the COH3 ‘verticality’ mechanics by allowing garisoned squads to see over short buildings and shoot over walls etc. Upgrades you could have would be:

  • Observation Nest. This would basically increase LOS in all directions and be useful for seeing incoming attacks.
  • MG Nest. This would outfit the bunker with an MG. However, unlike MG bunkers, you would be able to manually change the direction of the MG. 360 degree area denial but vulnerable to small arms.
  • Sandbags. No longer vulnerable to small arms and has more health. Basically becomes a hardpoint. The ideal would be to put an MG in a watchtower with sandbags, but that would obviously be more expensive.

The nice thing about this teching setup is that given the AT gun is in T0, you can tech in any direction and still have access to an AT option, granting a lot of flexibility to your build orders. 

T3/T4 base tier constitute the mid game of the faction. The Munitions Halftrack would have an aura which allows nearby units to fire 10% faster and reduces the munitions cost of their abilities by 20%. This means this unit can compliment almost any strategy. It would also be cool if it could plant Goliath demolition vehicles like the Vampire HT could in Coh1. The Flak 41 would be not unlike the Bofors in function and power level and would also be towed, so presumably you would tow it into position and it would provide area denial and also AA services. 

The SDKFZ 234 would be the same as the Armoured car for Wehr in Coh1, with the 20mm auto cannon, but also have the upgrades:

  • 50mm upgun, converting it to a Puma.
  • 75mm short barrel, making it more like the Stummel. 
  • 75mm long barrel, making it like a Marder.

The Tank Commander would be a fun unit which you can place into any vehicle, improving that vehicle’s performance. I imagine something akin to a 15% movement speed, LOS and reload bonus would be sufficient, increasing with vet. When the commander is inside the vehicle, it should be clear to the opponent, making it a high value target. In large part, I imagine this unit being like veteran vehicle crew for US in Coh2, where they get transferred from vehicle to vehicle frequently. 

Then we have tier Tier Beta, which make the Ostheer lategame. The Hetzer and Ostwind would be the primary AT and Anti infantry platforms respectively, whereas P4J and Panzerwerfer would be your main battle tank and indirect fire solutions respectively. The nice thing of this setup is that no matter which way you go, either tier 3 or tier 4, they both allow you to tech for the Panther in the HQ, once tier Beta is purchased, rounding out your composition. 

For the P4J and the Panther, they have 3 squad upgrades apiece, the Pintle Mount MG42, Telescopic Sights and the NahVW Grenade Launcher. They're mutually exclusive with one another. The Telescopic sights would increase the units main gun accuracy. The NahVW Grenade launcher gives the unit several utility abilities. So which one you want in any given situation varies.

The Maschinenpistole-Vorsatz "P" Volley on the Hetzers would temporarily increase their effectiveness against infantry.

Concerning the global upgrades, I felt the DAK upgrade system to be the most fun and interesting upgrades that are currently present in the game, so in many ways I took inspiration from that. However, I wanted to make things yet more interesting by making a number of the upgrades mutually exclusive. In T1, the upgrade for G41s is a global upgrade which upgrades all Landsers with 2 G41s and unlocks a squad upgrade for a further 2 G41s, this upgrade improves Landers performance at all ranges. The MG30(t) upgrade, is also a global upgrade and gives Landsers 1 MG30(t) and the option to upgrade a second, this upgrade being more suited to long range engagements. However, both of these upgrades are mutually exclusive, so you can only ever have 1 of them in the match. Similarly, there would be an upgrade which allows all infantry to Sprint which is mutually exclusive with allowing vehicles to Blitz. In T2, M39 grenades for Landsers, Satchel Charges for Sturmpios and Smoke grenades for Combat Medics are an upgrade that is exclusive with Glasmine 43s for Landsers, Riegel Mine 43 for Sturmpios and Medical Cache for Combat medics. Also in T2, Advanced Repairs for Sturmpios and the Famo Recovery HT are mutually exclusive with Zimmerit paint on vehicles, which make vehicles more resilient to hand held AT and snares. 

The upgrades not only affect a number of units in the faction but being mutually exclusive, you’re faced with the tricky decision every game of permanent opportunity costs and trade offs. 

As for substitutions, these are the units I feel would make sense to have:

  • Swimwagen -> Kubel.
  • PAK41-> Pak 97/38.
  • Flammhetzer -> Ostwind.
  • 8cm Raketen-Vielfachwerfer -> Panzerwerfer.
  • Sd.Kfz.253 Observation Halftrack -> Sd.Kfz.252 Munitions Halftrack 
  • SDKFZ 7 -> SDKFZ 9.

For the latter, the primary difference would be in upgrades, with the SDKFZZ 7 having these upgrades:

  • Forward Retreat Point. 
  • 37 Flak gun.

The teching structure allows for a variety of tech paths and flexible teching. 

One of the main advantages of returning to the Eastern Front, especially for the Ostheer, is that because a majority of the German Vehicles will have been used in the factions, the best source of new units is basically with their allies. So like DAK with the Italians, Germany's WW2 allies on the Eastern front feature prominently: 

Double Apron Fences I see as being significantly broader wire, allowing you as the player to much more thoroughly perform area denial. Hohlladungs-Spring-Mine 4672 could be differentiated from other AT mines by being relatively cheap, but does less damage and does an engine crit. So this way, they're more spamable but the primary benefit is the engine damage. The thinking with the Garrisonable Concrete Emplacements, is that not only could you put MGs and Mortars in them, but also Flaks and AT guns (within reason). Team Weapon Focus Sight would increase the forward facing sight, but at the cost of sight in all other directions. The MG151/20 Erdkampflafette has a wheeled version, so it would be like the Flak 30 in performance. The Global Timed Infantry Resistance to Explosives, should generally make infantry and team weapons slower while its active. You could even make it so that they crawl, so there's an obvious visual tell when its active. 

With the IAR-80A Squadron Strafes, I see this having a variable munitions cost. Think of it as a 'one pass loiter', where a targeting circle is placed down and units within that circle are strafed, for one pass. However, you can adjust the number of planes that conduct the strafe, between 1 and 3 planes, with 1 plane costing 60 munitions, 2 planes 100 munitions and 3 planes 120 munitions. Gameplay wise, this could be achieved with a click and hold style control, where the longer you hold, the higher the munitions cost, the more strafes that come in. 

The Einstossflammenwefer would be an ability on Landsers to fire a burst of flame, somewhat like the 'Light It Up' ability. My intention with the Sniper Team is that this squad would be closer to Jager Light Infantry in Coh2, I don't want to be responsible for Snipers getting added to the game. 

For the Heinkel He 111 Triple Bombing Run, my thinking is that its a sort of 'skill shot', where each bomb line can be directed in a different direction, but all start from the same point. To illustrate this: 

Considering diagram A, let's say your first click is point X, point Y could be how you could control which angle these bombing runs come in on. The further away you click point Y from point Z will dictate where the bombing run lines will go. Obviously having a cursor appear showing the 3 lines of bombing would make it easier to target. You might want to have limit of say 10 degrees from the X axis (diagram D), although having it limited by the X axis would be fine as well. The fun thing about this is not only that its a skill shot, how good it is depends on how you target it, but you could make it so that point X is marked with a smoke, but the lines of the bombing run are not, so your opponent has to guess where it will land, perhaps from the angle of the bomber approach. This makes this kind of off map really interesting as an area denial tool, because it could land anywhere within a large cone, but there are also large gaps in the bombing, as shown in C and D, which units can escape to. The hitch is, you don't know where those safe zones are until the bombs start falling.

The Offmap HE - Incendiary Mortar Barrage, I see this working with a variable munitions cost but a fixed area, ie the more munitions you spend the more shells land in the area. How to implement that mechanic? I would do it via click and hold, so you click the point you want it to land and then hold it to increase the amount you spend. So if the barrage initially costs 100, if you increase the price with 25 munition intervals every .5 seconds, if you hold it for 2 seconds it will cost 200 and give you an extra 100 munitions of shells. This ticking cost should be visible on the cursor.

The Gewehrpropagandagranate, would be a Landser rifle grenade, which should apply a movement speed and cap speed debuff to units within its AOE, with a similar visual effect as the propaganda artillery in Coh2. 

The Tauchpanzer would be water transmissible, but unlike other amphibious units, it would submerge and then emerge on land. Pervitin, well, there's so many options with that, but perhaps a ROF and cap speed buff at the cost of accuracy would be an interesting dynamic. My thinking with the 22cm Mörser 531(f) Concentration Barrage is that this is an off map where you can control the circumference. To illustrate this:

Consider your first click is point X, point Y then is your second click and it controls over how broad an area it reaches with say an outer limit of a 50 diameter and an inner of say 15 diameter. Now, its important to note that no matter what the area of this circle equates to, the same number of shells will be fired, its just up to you as the player to decide the 'concentration' of those shells. The logic behind this is there are situations where you would want to nuke a specific target and situations where you would want to perform broad area denial. Its in your hands and how effective it is depends on your skill as a player.  

The Fuel Trailer requires some explanation. My thinking with this is that its a brand new unit type, which loosely can be defined as a support weapon. How it works is that infantry squads can crew it, push it around, vehicles can tow it, etc. When in a position, it provides an aura which in this case makes nearby vehicles faster. It can also be used to increase fuel supply. However, the unit shouldn't require pop cap and moreover, you can actually manually decrew it and it will still provide you the benefits. So for example, let's say it spawns in your base and you want to get faster vehicles, you can crew it with a squad, wheel it over to a house near the frontline and then decrew it. Units within its vicinity would still be benefiting from the aura. When you want to move it, recrew it again, or tow it, to a new location. The beauty of this dynamic is that your opponents can steal these units from you like an ATG, so while they don't take up popcap and would be relatively cheap (say 50 to 100 manpower), you're still incentivised to protect them. You can also attack move them with AT guns etc, especially if it had a large AOE explosion. I think it would make for an interesting dynamic, but would need to be coded from scratch. It also indirectly makes tow yet more useful. It would also make sense to make it so that the bonuses in base or on a point don't stack. The discount in base should probably be a targeted ability, thus requiring some micro. 

The Schiessbecher Panzergranate 46 would replace the existing AT Grenade with a longer range and more damaging snare.

The Borgward IV would be such a cool unit on so many levels. In its default format, it could be a Goliath on steroids, where you could sneak it into the base to blow up entire tech structures, but I see its primary use being rammable into tanks and taking them out in 1 detonation. You would have to make the vehicle 3 shot, something around 360 health would do nicely, but it would have to cost a fair bit, like 250 manpower, 40 fuel, so that players risk to lose something if it doesn't work. 

However, you could just upgrade it with the Panzerjäger Wanze, where it loses the ability to detonate, but instead gets a 6 salvo panzerschrek weapon. I see this working more like the Firefly Tulips in Coh2, just without the munitions cost per salvo, maybe even a manual reload like the Sturmtiger. 

The 20 cm Leichter Ladungswerfer I could see being like a mortar, expect with no auto fire and a long delay between shots. From what I've read there was also a 'harpoon shot' which was used to clean obstacles like wire and mines, which could be interesting.  

The Sprengpanzer upgrade for the UC would also be a remote controlled bomb that could be rammed into tanks and used to blow up structures, just on a smaller scale.

Abwehrflammen-werfer 42 was a flamethrower trap, which when triggered, shot out a burst of flame, as the name would imply. In the game, I feel this should be implemented as a directional mine, with a wide cone of effect and last long enough to be primarily used as an area denial tool.

The Tauchpanzer would be water transmissible, but unlike other amphibious units, it would submerge and then emerge on land. The Landwasserschlepper would be surface amphibious however. It would be also able to reinforce and transport squads. 

With Krummlauf attached, the squad would be able to shoot around walls and buildings at close range, without being targetable themselves.

The Panzerschrek Trailer would be another type of trailer unit, except here the auras are snare and AT based.


There's so many options for battlegroups that you could build a whole 4th faction if you wanted! This is the primary advantage of Ostheer over Japanese and Italian. 

 

I feel this design allows for a lot of flexibility for designing battlegroups, as with the Panther in the HQ, you don't need to worry about faction scaling and therefore the battlegroups can have a more early to mid game focus. This suits the roster of potential units from the Axis allies well as they didn't actually field heavy hitting tanks to the same calibre. The other advantage of the base design is that due to the way teching is split up, you can allow battlegroup vehicles to be tied to a variety of build paths, the vehicles in turn multiplying the possible viable strategies. 


Finally, if this was the path Relic went down, the most compelling campaign they could actually deliver in my opinion would be a campaign outlining the stories of Finland, Hungary and Romania in WW2. It could start of with Finland in the Winter War, ambushing T-26s in forests, then proceed to Hungary and Romania in Operation Barbarossa; Siege of Odessa up until Stalingrad, with the Continuation War in there somewhere. Then continue with the evacuation of Sevastopol, the Lapland war, Romania taking an order of German tanks and then switching sides, and end with the fall of Budapest. You could even have the second last mission playing as the Hungarians defending Budapest and the last mission playing as the Romanians capturing Budapest. I feel this would be not only fascinating, dramatic but also stories that are not so well known and are quite interesting. 


As I have made clear by this point, returning to the Eastern Front has a plethora of advantages and it gets my vote for the first major expansion. 


My Other Designs

- DAK Redesign.

- Brit Redesign.

- US Suggestions.

- Wehr Suggestions.

- Soviet Proposal.

- Japanese Proposal.

- USMC Proposal

- Commonwealth Burma Proposal.

- Free French Proposal.

- Italian Proposal.

- Hungarian Proposal.

- Luftwaffe Field Division


My General Feedback 

- Feature Request and Bug Fixes

Updated a year ago.
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a year ago
Jun 17, 2023, 3:44:57 PM

Added another battlegroup and updated the diagram.

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a year ago
Jun 29, 2023, 12:07:28 AM

Made some slight tweaks to teching to make back teching and side teching more attractive.

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a year ago
Jul 25, 2023, 5:52:56 AM

I really like this concept, it should be in game 100 %, but that substitutions idea I really dislike it, all that vehicles should be added on the faction and that units should be used trough upgrades or improvements from the other one, for example panzerwerfer would be first one and later it´s upgrade would be the rocketen werfer, and for ostwind the flampanzers 38 should cost 10 oil to be able to later buy it, as I always say : more units = more opportunities =  better faction.

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a year ago
Jul 27, 2023, 5:33:41 AM

M3ta can you say me your discord to add you? I want to talk with you an idea for this faction wich would be really interesting and cool.

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a year ago
Jul 27, 2023, 1:20:59 PM
EricSoldadito wrote:

M3ta can you say me your discord to add you? I want to talk with you an idea for this faction wich would be really interesting and cool.

Sure. Meta#4959. 

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a year ago
Jul 27, 2023, 1:27:38 PM
EricSoldadito wrote:

I really like this concept, it should be in game 100 %, but that substitutions idea I really dislike it, all that vehicles should be added on the faction and that units should be used trough upgrades or improvements from the other one, for example panzerwerfer would be first one and later it´s upgrade would be the rocketen werfer, and for ostwind the flampanzers 38 should cost 10 oil to be able to later buy it, as I always say : more units = more opportunities =  better faction.

I get what you're talking about, it somewhat reminds me of the Blitzkrieg mod, but I don't think Relic would ever do that. They have set a precedent in all their games of how many units their factions would have and I don't see them changing that now. With the substitutions, I could see that feature being universally popular, no body really cares about skins but if you could get new units, then people would actually care about merit. 


Glad you like the design though. I think its one of the better ones. 

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a year ago
Jul 28, 2023, 3:38:10 AM
M3ta wrote:
EricSoldadito wrote:

I really like this concept, it should be in game 100 %, but that substitutions idea I really dislike it, all that vehicles should be added on the faction and that units should be used trough upgrades or improvements from the other one, for example panzerwerfer would be first one and later it´s upgrade would be the rocketen werfer, and for ostwind the flampanzers 38 should cost 10 oil to be able to later buy it, as I always say : more units = more opportunities =  better faction.

I get what you're talking about, it somewhat reminds me of the Blitzkrieg mod, but I don't think Relic would ever do that. They have set a precedent in all their games of how many units their factions would have and I don't see them changing that now. With the substitutions, I could see that feature being universally popular, no body really cares about skins but if you could get new units, then people would actually care about merit. 


Glad you like the design though. I think its one of the better ones. 

Yeah but you should try with this one to do that, make substitutions be upgrades or armour reserves upgrades for more content on each faction, Relic accepts rn a lot the concept of the COH1, try in this one what I said, I really like your substitutions and I think most of them can be very good reserves upgrades and others can be a separated unit for another task, don´t exclude them they look very cool too!

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a year ago
Jul 28, 2023, 3:44:41 AM

For example Schwimwagen  can be a battle early car and Kubelwagen would be more focused on  a reconnaissance car with more upgrades, Schwimmwagen was faster than kubel so you can suggest that and a passive ability wich would be that it repairs alonely when it´s out of combat, this type of things is what you should try and with the different vehicles like Racketen-Vielfachwerfer should be an upgrade on the same company wich Panzerwerfel would be. I really want to see a faction like this one with many vehicles, because the Ostfront was the hardest front and the most important one from the whole WW2 so yeah it would make totally sense.

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